Finding Purpose Beyond Trauma – Elizabeth Snyder’s Journey of Resilience through Photography

In this inspiring episode of Life-Changing Challengers, host Brad Minus sits down with Elizabeth Snyder, professional photographer, author, and speaker, to discuss her journey from trauma to triumph. Elizabeth shares how she grew up in a challenging household, navigated the struggles of being a single mother, and ultimately rediscovered her passion for photography after years of working multiple jobs just to survive.

She opens up about her early fascination with photography, the detour into cosmetology for financial stability, and the unexpected obstacles that forced her to put her dreams on hold. From pulling a sled through the snow to a food bank to enduring two battles with cancer, Elizabeth’s story is one of resilience, determination, and self-discovery.

Through her portrait photography business, Elizabeth now helps individuals find confidence and empowerment through the lens. She also discusses her book Finding Your Purpose Beyond Trauma, which provides tools to turn personal struggles into a source of strength and creativity.

Episode Highlights

• [10:00] – Choosing cosmetology as a trade while still dreaming of photography.
• [20:00] – Becoming a single mother and struggling with financial hardships.
• [35:00] – The turning point: pulling her kids on a sled to a food bank in the snow.
• [50:00] – Winning a photography contest that reignited her passion.
• [1:05:00] – Transitioning into full-time photography and building her business.
• [1:20:00] – The impact of AI and photography, and why human connection matters.
• [1:30:00] – Writing Finding Your Purpose Beyond Trauma and empowering others.

Key Takeaways

1. Your Passion Never Truly Leaves You – Even after detours in life.
2. Resilience Comes from Adversity – Hardships shape who you are and can fuel personal growth.
3. Creativity is a Form of Healing – Expressing yourself through art, photography, or other outlets is therapeutic.
4. AI Can’t Replace Authenticity – While technology evolves, human connection and storytelling will always matter.
5. Success Requires Bold Choices – Take a leap of faith and trust your instincts.

Links & Resources

• Elizabeth Snyder’s Website: ElizabethSnyderPhotography.com 
• Elizabeth’s Book: Finding Your Purpose Beyond Trauma – Buy on Amazon
• Follow Elizabeth on Social Media: 
  • Instagram: @ElizabethSnyderPhotographyLLC
  • Facebook: Elizabeth Snyder Photography

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and share the

Contact Brad @ Life Changing Challengers
Instagram: @bradaminus
Facebook: @bradaminus
X(Twitter): @bradaminus
YouTube: @lifechangingchallengers
LifeChangingChallengers.com

Want to be a guest on Life-Changing Challengers? Send Brad Minus a message on PodMatch, here.

Transcript

Brad Minus: [00:00:00] And welcome back to another episode of life changing challengers I have with me. The one, the only Elizabeth Snyder from Elizabeth Snyder Photography. She is an amazing photographer, ladies and gentlemen, and when I give you her website and her Instagram at the end of the episode, you're just going to jump right on because some of the most beautiful shots I've ever seen.

And you're going to just want to hire her. You might have to fly out to New York to do it. You will want to hire her. I promise you. Um, but she's got a great story for us today. So let's welcome her. Elizabeth, how you doing? 

Elizabeth Snyder: Hi, Brad. Thank you so much for having me. I'm doing great.

How are you? 

Brad Minus: I'm great. And the honor is all mine. I assure you. So Elizabeth, can you tell us a little bit about your childhood, you know, where you grew up, what was the compliment of your family? And what was it like to be Elizabeth as a kid? [00:01:00] 

Elizabeth Snyder: All right. Well, we're gonna go deep. Let's go deep. So, I always kind of start my story off when I was about eight years old.

I did not have the happiest or healthiest upbringing. It was, it was, You know, we, my brothers and I were the product of, teenage pregnancy and marriage and so, you know, we did have family that cared about us, took us out, you know, got us out of our parents hair or vice versa.

When I was eight, I had an aunt who was, like eight years older than me. So she was 16. Her grandfather, it was a really hot summer that year. Let me preface with that. We were on our parents nerves and it was not a great day. My aunt picked me up, took me to my grandparents house where her grandfather had just given her everything that she needed to start a dark room and modest portrait studio in her attic.

And that's what. And it kind of started the [00:02:00] whole thing, once I was up there with her figuring out how to put everything together and then of course testing everything out once we got it, learning how to develop a film and a picture right there. Watching an image appear on a piece of paper where there was nothing before, it was like, Alchemy.

It was like real witchcraft. And I was hooked. It was, it was what I knew at that age that I was supposed to be doing with my life. And luckily I hung on to that. So yeah, from eight years old, I, oh, let's see. I did grow up in a small town called North Tonawanda. It did get some notoriety, from David Letterman in the 90s actually calling it the most racist city in America.

Yep, we had that. And actually it's changed a lot now, which is very nice to see people living there and not having a hard time at all. But I've heard some stories about, the fifties, sixties, seventies, that just were [00:03:00] not great. So yeah, I grew up there. 

Brad Minus: And that's upstate New York.

Elizabeth Snyder: So we did. Our best, you know, my parents, did finally get divorced, when I was a senior in high school. But leading up to that, it was, it was pretty tumultuous in our house. It was, Very, there's a lot of anger. There's a lot of, resentment.

There's a lot of just all kinds of stuff. So my brothers and I did our best and my mom did her best and, you know, it is what it is. Growing up, knowing that I really, really wanted to be an artist. specifically a photographer. I exhausted every art class that I could take, in high school and in middle school and just went for it.

And by the time I got to high school, after exhausting every photography class that I was allowed to take, I went to BOCES, which is our like trade school, I wasn't great student, very average, very dyslexic, very ADHD. Nobody was really, diagnosing back then. [00:04:00] So we just kind of did what we could and you know, it was difficult.

So I went to trade school and I went into cosmetology because I really wanted to know how to do hair and makeup on photo shoots. And that was what ended up sticking because when I graduated school, I ended up, in a situation where I had nowhere to live, all of a sudden. I did hair because it was the way that my then boyfriend at the time and I could afford to move out and photography was, not like we didn't have social media then 

yeah. So it was, it was very difficult to kind of like get started. And he was going to school, so I couldn't afford to go to school. So like, we were just kind of like, I was working two jobs. He was going to school and working. We ended up getting married very, very young and having kids very, very young.

And then divorced. 

Brad Minus: And that 

Elizabeth Snyder: was where it kind of like. My life took a turn, you know, like, you kind of think you have it all together and then, you know, you're, you're all of a sudden you're an adult and you have two kids and, [00:05:00] you know, partner who's not necessarily growing with you. So, it, it just kind of melted.

But, after being a single, 

Brad Minus: Yeah, let me just ask you for, let's just, let's just pull back just a minute, because I just, I'm going to get some, I want to get some details in here. I want people to understand what you're going through. So, all right, so you go to high school and you're, you do every, every possible thing to get, to get as much, as much knowledge as you can in photography, but then you move over to cosmetology.

Which I think is very smart because it does two things for you. One, hair and makeup for your photo shoots. Two, gives you a trade and you walk out of high school with a trade. Yep. Super smart. For free. And sounds like you were self actualized enough to know that you weren't a great student as far as academics go.

And I was with you there. I'm with you there. I'll give you a coordinating story just so you know, when I was in high school, I was, in band and orchestra, but I really [00:06:00] wanted to be in theater, and I want to be a musical theater. So, I didn't start ballet, tap, and jazz till my freshman year in high school.

So, I could dance so I could be in musical theater. That never developed, unfortunately. I mean, it did, sort of, kind of, but not, like, not as a profession. But I was the same way, right? So, you wanted to be a photographer, but you knew that you needed to do hair and makeup to get good shots and also provided you a way to have a trade.

So, all right, we get to the point where you get married, you get married young, have two kids. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yep. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Boy then girl. Now they, them now, gender neutral, but yeah. You know, the stereotypical boy first, then a girl, then we're done. Then we're, you know, 

Brad Minus: How far apart in age are they?

Elizabeth Snyder: They're three and a half years. 

Brad Minus: Okay. 

Elizabeth Snyder: So yeah, my oldest is, just turned 21 in September and my youngest is [00:07:00] going to be 18 next week. 

Brad Minus: Wow. 

Elizabeth Snyder: I am. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, I can imagine. So is your, your oldest going in, is she in college? 

Elizabeth Snyder: They are figuring themselves out, doing some soul searching and yeah, you know, they'll get it.

Brad Minus: Hey, there is no better time to not go to college than right now. There are so many opportunities for you to build wealth and make money, learn trades, learn skills, and not have to go to college and not get that far in debt and stuff. There's so many opportunities. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, and they know they can live at home forever. So it's not like, you know, they have to like get out, get a job right now. Everything's expensive. We know that 

Brad Minus: all right. So let's dig in to the point where you are, a single mom with two kids. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah. So, I had an empty bank account, because.

My ex moved out and [00:08:00] emptied the bank account and no car. He had totaled his car and then, the other car, he was working full time, so he needed the car. I did not have one. So anything that I had to do, I had to beg, borrow and steal and walk, which was, it was fine. But, it did put me in a position of.

Where I just did not want it to seem normal to my kids that this was how we were living you know, I got really really good at being broke and Juggling bills and the electricity is not getting shut off till this month. So we're paying the gas today Kind of deal and it was tough But you know like The one deciding memory that really stands out is, in Buffalo, it snows a lot.

I don't know if you've heard, but we get feet, not inches. And people don't typically like to shovel their sidewalks. And it makes it very difficult for, and I'm, I go on a whole soapbox about this, but it makes. It very difficult for [00:09:00] people who don't have a car or do have to walk or get the bus or whatever to have a safe space to do that.

And there was, a period where I was waiting to get my approval for. Food stamps and my application got lost in a whole medical leave situation. And I spent, yeah, I had no money. I had no job. I had no money and I couldn't figure out how to feed the kids, but I did find a food bank about a mile up the road.

So in the sled with the kids, because I couldn't push the stroller in the snow, dragging them to the food bank in below 20, because. We just couldn't wait anymore. And, that, that was my big turning point of, this is not okay. We are never doing this again. Things are going to turn around. And actually the next day, the food bit or the food stamp people called me back to, get my application rolling finally.

Brad Minus: So 

Elizabeth Snyder: yeah. It was really difficult. But you know, got a job, got a [00:10:00] car, got the kids, sorted out, moved into an apartment. And really kind of lost everything, because I was working three jobs at that point and I just had no time for anything, especially art and especially what made me.

Most happy not just taking care of the kids and doing everything for them I wasn't doing anything for me and What were you 

Brad Minus: You said you had three car you had three? 

Elizabeth Snyder: So I was doing hair still on the side and occasionally for a salon I was doing updates for like weddings and stuff like Just kind of freelance.

I was working at a bank and I was working at Wegman's, all kind of at the same Wegman's as a grocery store. I was a, oh, love, 

Brad Minus: Wegmans 

Elizabeth Snyder: Love. No, you call me 

Brad Minus: Love Wegmans. I lived in DC for a while. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Oh, they're great. Yeah. Yeah. I love Wegmans. That's best. Oh, they're the best place to work too.

They really are. Really. Yeah. They're very, very good to their employees. But yeah, so I, you know, [00:11:00] kind of gave up on everything. Because I didn't have time to even think about it. And, I was finally working at the bank full time and, you know, had dropped down to two jobs and, I was doing business banking collections and I was miserable.

I was absolutely miserable. I was foreclosing on people's homes and dreams. And, a lot of people tie their homes to their businesses. So when they fail, You lose your house too. It was. Just soul sucking. It was just awful. And I became pretty bitter, pretty miserable. Didn't take very long for that to happen and got pulled aside by a friend of mine who was just like, all right, listen, if age money circumstance, like none of nothing matters, like what would you be doing?

My knee jerk reaction went right back to photography and I was, I almost forgot about it. Like I was almost like, Oh, right. Yeah, no, I was going to be a photographer. He sent [00:12:00] me a link to a contest, that I ended up winning. So I got a camera, back then it was Photoshop. You had to buy the, the discs.

I got the program. I got a camera and I got a laptop and within a year I was able to put my job at the bank and do photography full time. 

Brad Minus: So, you were doing photography full time. Were you doing like what you're doing now? 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, not so much in the studio, because I didn't have one.

But, I did a lot of outdoor, like, family shoots and a lot of weddings. A lot, a lot of weddings. 

Brad Minus: That's where I was going with it. Okay. Yeah. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Finally retired from the spot. 

Brad Minus: Oh my God. So yes, I will give you a quick little, I'll give you a little quick anecdote.

You are eight. I was 15 and my best friend had, her father used to do photography as a hobby and he was, they were digging around, you know, cleaning out the garage and they found. Her, her imager. What's that thing called? The 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Brad Minus: [00:13:00] Hmm. The imager. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Called. Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Because we don't know. We're digital now. 

Elizabeth Snyder: No. 

Brad Minus: No. And, yeah. So, I got to experience that. And that's when I got more into like the film photography and stuff as well.

But that was the same thing. I thought the, when you were mentioning it, when you were eight and how they, how you came something out of nothing, I was like, that's exactly how I felt. I was like, we're sitting in, we spent. Hours in the dark room, hours. It's like, I would go to her house at like 8 39 in the morning and about like 6 PM, her mom would call us out of there because we had lists like rolls and rolls of film, just drawing.

And they, they're, and of course, you know, we're kids, so we didn't pay for the paper or the, or the chemicals or, or the, you know, for anything or the film. You know, we didn't pay for anything. They're just like, Hey, you know, we're not made of money here. You know, if you're going to go buy more paper, Ilford, like, you know, Ilford paper and Ilford film, you're going to have to go buy it.

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: And when I got to [00:14:00] college. I was looking for a part time, and I just needed, like, books and gas and stuff, and I came across this guy, his business was called Mr. Photo. And basically what he did was he was hired by the Greek community to go whenever they had a formal or an event and they had a lot of parties you know, the exchanges is what we call them when you'd have a fraternity and a sorority and they would have.

Yeah, you know, they have some sort of event together, and it was very casual and stuff. They'd be like, oh, call Mr. Photo, and we would go in there, and we'd just take pictures all night. They'd feed us. They'd, you know, water us. Whatever you want to call it. Yeah, it was a great gig and then we would then it's still doing film But we'd send out the film they come back and then we would put them in albums label them and say okay here And then give them a sheet and say order what you want And then we would pick them up and that's how we would make money But they'd pay us for the shoot and then they'd pay us for the for the photos So you wanted great photos, right, but I [00:15:00] remember that and that's and from there.

I moved into weddings during the summer. Yeah, and I did it in front of my dad's and, so he was at the wedding while I was doing it and he was like, he was like, man, you moved them around like nothing. Cause you know what I used to do for them? It's like when I'd get the wedding party afterwards, it was like, all right.

It would be like the, the bridesmaids, the bride, the bridesmaids, the bride and the groom, right? Then the groom, everybody. Then move off the, the girls and then have the groom and the wedding and the, and the, the bride in the groom then move the bride off. And then it was the groom and the, and it was groom and the groomsmen.

That's it. I just would move them through like a fricking conveyor belt. 

Elizabeth Snyder: My dad was you for weddings. You have to be. 

Brad Minus: Was like efficient. It was like, that's a really efficient, the way you did it then. Start taking candidates the rest of the night, you know, it was pretty cool.

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: but it was fun. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Goes, it's the DJ show. You're just there. It's nice. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Now it's like [00:16:00] you go to a wedding and they would snap the shots and like five seconds later it would be on a monitor, they would have the bounce, right.

And it would just go click, click, click. And then all of a sudden the monitor would have the pictures right there. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, there are a lot of photographers that will shoot tethered. I just never was interested. It just seemed like a lot of overhead and I was already like doing 16 hour days and whatever.

No, that's a lot. I do know plenty of people that do that now and it's nuts to me. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. And then they tag on the video combo with the sliding and the whole bit where they would throw it in together, which I do a lot of my own editing and I know how much work that is.

So I'm like, wow. No wonder what it costs for you to have a fricking wedding done. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Crazy. It is insane. In fact, I've gotten two calls now from, brides that have had other photographers, asking about what my editing rates are, because I guess, at least for these two, the photographer did give me [00:17:00] permission to work on the images.

Like I always ask and I always reach out. Make sure that I am like doing things accordingly, but yeah, so they spent, oh my God, the one girl spent like seven grand just on her photographer. The other one, five. And I'm like, I've never been paid five grand for a lighting, I don't know what I was doing wrong.

And I, you know, and then to re edit all of the images, I'm like, alright, well, they're giving me the raws, so I can do it. But, yeah, it's insane. And I'm kind of really glad that I'm not doing it anymore. It's just, it's a lot. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. I mean, and I did it over college, you know, that was extra money, you know what I mean?

And, and yeah, well back then, I'm not even gonna tell you what year it was. But back then, I was, like, stoked to get 500, which included me doing all the editing, giving them the proofs, and then handing them an album, and whatever other ones they want. So my, whatever I got from the pictures, which was cents, you know what I mean?

You get a [00:18:00] quarter, fifty cents or something per print by the time you, took everything out of it. If I was able to make 500, I was ecstatic. I was like, this is a huge one. It's 500. Now they're getting 7, 000. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah. It's nuts. I don't know how anybody's even getting married anymore Like those micro weddings that were over coven were fantastic.

And I loved shooting every single one of those But now that everybody's getting back into the big weddings again i'm just out. I can handle like 100 people And then I'm good. Now it's insane. God bless wedding photographers.

I'm not that anymore. 

Brad Minus: Well, and especially now it's smartphones, which have such great fricking photos on them now. You know what I mean? That it was like, I went to one and they were just like, here's an upload site. And they're like, find your best ones, upload them and put copies up on their site.

And I was like, that's, Smart. Yeah. You know, they had a professional come in and do the ceremony and then they stopped at that [00:19:00] point. And we're just told everybody, here's the site, take all the pictures you want and your best ones, upload them.

We're going to use those. So you are all our photographers. 

Elizabeth Snyder: That's fantastic. Well, and back in the day, people would put disposables on the camera around the tables and everybody would take disposables, which always ended up being the most fun pictures to look at anyway, because everything else is just posed and stuff and you know, it's a wedding.

It's wedding photos, you know, but yeah, no, I'm a big proponent of, letting people do the cell phone thing. I know it's kind of a, touchy subject with some photographers, but, the cameras on our phones are so much more powerful than anything I ever started with and with the filters and the portrait studio or whatever the iPhone has now.

It's like, you know what, if you can get a great shot, do it. Great. Fantastic. I'm not afraid that my job is going to be gone. I'm not afraid of AI. I'm not afraid of, you see the ads [00:20:00] all the time for the headshot AI, whatever, like you don't need a photographer. It's not there yet.

And you're always going to want somebody to kind of coach you through, do it the cheap way and then come to somebody, pay somebody who knows what they're doing. 

Brad Minus: I don't think AI allows you to bring any individuality out of it. You know what I mean? Like, when you have a good photographer like yourself, you can almost see the personality come out of that, come out of your subject.

AI, you know, might be the picture, the face is there, even the structure is there, but then all of a sudden everything else doesn't make sense. So it's very cold. And that's what I'm thinking about AI. Is it cool? Yeah, it's cool, but it's not something that you're going to put on canvas and put above your fireplace.

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, you know, not at this point 

Brad Minus: right. But you will, if you have a wedding and you've got a great photographer like yourself and you've got this wonderful flowing dress and the tux and they're looking at each other and the sunset behind them and you got it all set up [00:21:00] and you're like, yeah, that's.

But you get you get their personalities. So you started doing weddings and were you Oh, so was this at a point when you won the photography contest? Were we in digital age yet?

Elizabeth Snyder: Yes. Yes. Just started. So I had to relearn a lot of things. Especially ISO because that was always the film that was, and I'm like, what, what, how, what is this even? You know? So we would. You know, choose our film according to what the lighting was going to be, and all of a sudden we can just do it.

What was nice about Adobe anyway is that they kept all of the, the names of all the darkroom tools the same. So there's still dorfer and there's still, you know, enlarging and what, you know, whatever.

Healing brush, all of that. And, you know, for people who get on Photoshop and get on, you know, Oh, the, the models were a big thing, right? Like, like Victoria's secret was [00:22:00] notorious for Photoshopping the crap out of all of them and not being realistic. But people have been doing that since the beginning of photography, you know, like when photography first started, even the, the derogator, I never say it right.

The, the French guy that invented photography, even he was doing experimental things with the developing. Like post, so Like people were making all of these like weird superimposed ghost pictures and like it kind of started the spiritual movement and they did stuff with oh shoot.

What was her name? Not Greta Garbo One of the old silver screen actresses, she was pregnant at the time, so she's, she's facing away from the camera and she's looking over her shoulder and she's got like this really cute like black bathing suit on. And it was like the epitome of pinup because it was World War II and it was, you know, right when all that was going on, and she was pregnant.

And they, they tucked her in. They, you know, and for the, the actresses with like, you know, the [00:23:00] Hollywood light, like right in their face and they're looking up and they have all the, you know, all of that was done with like Vaseline and blurring and erasing and, you know, no, they were not poreless.

They had pores. I promise. So, you know, the hard time that people give Photoshop, it's not really fair. It's up to the photographer, it's up to the editor and it's up to whoever's publishing the pictures, to make sure that they're being realistic and true to their brand and whatever they are trying to do.

I'm really glad that things are changing and becoming super more realistic. Like when people, women especially, because I do specialize in women. We get very touchy about our weight and you can be the most gorgeous person in the world and you're still going to hate something about yourself.

I make sure that people understand that at the end of the day, it needs to look like you like. We want you to not look plastic. We want you to look like yourself on a really good day. And yes, we can tweak it, [00:24:00] but. Let's be true. And honestly, of course there are people that, do want you to go overboard and go plastic and go, super filtered, which at the end of the day, it's their picture.

Like I gotta, I gotta make them happy. But it doesn't happen that often. And. I think that it's because of all the coaching and all of the things that I'm doing with my clients beforehand to prepare them for what their images are going to look like in the end. We go through personality, we go through, you know, if it's a headshot, what are you doing?

Like, what, do you own a business? Are you looking for a promotion? Did you just get a new job? Like, why are you here? What are you doing? How did you get to where you are? I love hearing about people's journeys and how they got to where they are right and you do too, apparently, and how they got to where they are from where they were.

And if you're, you know, business collections person. You know, you didn't grow up thinking that that was what you were going to do. So how did you get [00:25:00] there? And why are you there? And do you enjoy it or do you not? And why aren't you doing something else? So like all of these questions and these things that I do to kind of get to know somebody before they even come into the studio are very, very important.

For the shoot, in general, just because it gets them warmed up. It gets them to know me better. It gets me to know them better. And then we aren't like perfect strangers just on that day. And we're constantly coaching and we're constantly shouting out instructions and my assistants there to like distract basically.

Because they're not seeing me when they look into the camera, they're seeing themselves and people. Men too are scared to death sometimes when a camera's in their face and they're like, Oh my God, what do I do? And, Oh my God, everybody's looking at me and who do I think I am? And, you know, that whole imposter syndrome thing just starts.

And if you can keep them busy enough and you keep them thinking about other things. I'm [00:26:00] very, very into the micro adjustments in the studio. Tilt your head, fix your Disney, get your Disney princess fingers, make sure your hand posture is right. So there's all kinds of stuff that we're doing with them that they aren't even really thinking of once we get started.

So expression, a real laugh, you know, it just kind of depends on the shoot, depends on what they're doing it for. But it's a huge piece to what I do. And it's because it's people and it's not something that AI is ever going to be able to do. Which is another reason I'm not really afraid of it taking my job.

Brad Minus: Yeah. No, I don't, like I said, we hadn't mentioned this before. I don't think AI is going to be able to do it just because it's still cold. It's really cold. And I've seen, I've seen more AI pictures than I want to, than I want to ever to know. You always know. You always know when it is. You always know.

Yeah, you just look, there's, there's one guy. That does, half and half. He does this, his whole channel on Instagram is, it's like half and half. So what he's talking about is up here, and then he's [00:27:00] got a, it's just a talking head, and the talking head's AI. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Oh, 

Brad Minus: and you can tell. 

Elizabeth Snyder: That those aren't real?

Brad Minus: Yeah, and it's because also, the mouth is moving differently. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Oh, that's weird. 

Brad Minus: Just, yeah, it is. It's kind of weird. It's what he says is interesting, but it's still so kind of weird. And now you listen and you can, if you've been really looking, listening, you know, all the voices, you know, and I found them on 11 labs.

I was like, I think one of them, the guy that, you know, everywhere, you know, is Brian. You'll know Brian the minute that it starts to talk and it's, it's that he's got that like. Medium, with a little bit of timbre in the back of her voice, and he's always got this, like, the motivational stuff. And you know what he sounds like and you just know, you know I mean any kind of motivational stuff you'll hear it and he's on there and it's like it's Brian and I'm like Okay, but you can then if you start listening you'll get you'll learn other ones and then yes some of and Brian is by far the one [00:28:00] that why they use it is because he sounds he's the most natural sounding Of all the AI regular voices and then they got it now where you can actually like clone your own voice So you don't so you don't know talking more 

Elizabeth Snyder: funny story.

I actually did end up doing that. I just published Self published a book, last month and I am very, very dyslexic and not a strong reader, especially out loud. I was recording in the closet. I was doing all kinds of stuff to get the distractions out.

Let me just concentrate on what I'm trying to say. I ended up voice cloning because I wanted it to be in my voice and you can tweak it so you can rerecord and fix a part that isn't. I actually did use 11 laps to do it. It was the best way for me to move forward with the project because it just was not happening.

Yeah, so I did end up doing that and you know, I kind of feel like if you do find something that works for you and you weren't going to pay a person anyway to do it. Go for it. I don't want it to take [00:29:00] people's jobs. That's the only thing that I'm like about because it does.

It's whole thing is that it's, it's taking pieces of the internet and putting it together into whatever it is like generative AI is, is what you're telling it to do, but it can't just start from scratch. It needs to collect those things from somewhere. And I don't know if you use. The new generative AI stuff in Photoshop at all.

But that's exactly what it's doing is it's scouring the internet and stealing pieces to make it work for whatever you're trying to tell it to do. Cause it does feel like stealing. It doesn't feel honest. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, there's this, and now it makes things copywritten.

Harder to copyright because just because of that, it used to be that if you wanted to use stuff for your website, or if you want to put stuff online, if you grabbed it from Google, if you didn't, get permission or be specific about making the credit, it could be taken down. You could be [00:30:00] sued.

Right. But now because of AI and because of just that, now you can't even get a copyright anymore. It's the only way to copyright something is it's gotta be like the whole image. You've got to copyright the whole image, you've got to copyright the whole book, complete, right? But, it doesn't mean that, you know, people will take paragraphs, or they'll take a whole chapter, and put it in different words, and now they copyright it.

And, but there's no, there's no recourse. No, 

Elizabeth Snyder: not yet. I'm sure the laws are coming, but yeah, right now it's, it's looking, especially for copywriters, because that was kind of the first thing with like, chat, GPT and all of that. Like that was kind of how it started was, Hey, I need to write this essay for this class I have, and I don't want to, so tell me what I need to say.

And it just kind of evolved from there. So I'm, I'm hoping it changes. I'm sure it will. I'm sure they're going to come up with protections for artists. We just need to get people to [00:31:00] value artists a little more. Cause everybody's always looking to do everything for free and that's not how we pay our bills.

Brad Minus: So tell me about this book. I know you've got a masterclass that I was going to plug, that you put out there called passion, purpose, and power. Is that also the name of the 

Elizabeth Snyder: The book is called, Finding Your Purpose Beyond Trauma. And it details a lot of case studies, because like I said, I talked to all my clients, and they, allowed me to put some of their stories into the book, to highlight the importance of making sure that you are making time for you, no matter what is going on in your life and also turning your traumas into your strengths, instead of it being your story and your victimhood kind of whole deal. You can turn it around and use the strength that you got from that experience. As your superpower and kind of, it becomes a story and not your story, [00:32:00] which, is very near and dear for me. 

Brad Minus: That's fantastic. I actually have been thinking about doing the same thing, but not about.

I liked your route is to go with, you know, basically making sure you have time for you and that you make sure that you, you know, yourself, for me, it's about those little nuggets of information on how did they succeed beyond trauma and turning their traumas. Like most of this, this podcast is turning those traumas on their head and doing something unorthodox to come out of it and be successful, you know, you knew what you wanted to do and he had to go away from it.

To come back to it, to become the success you are, that's, you know, most people would either drive straight through, they would keep doing something, but you actually went away from it completely. 

Elizabeth Snyder: I did, I even went as far as selling my equipment because I needed to pay bills. So I didn't have anything, for a long time.

And we didn't have cameras on our phones yet either. So I was just, you know, [00:33:00] if somebody had their camera out, great. But otherwise I, there are very few pictures of even my kids from back then, which makes me very sad, but you know, it is what it is. But yeah, it's, you know, trauma is such a. Everybody has it, you know, it's, it's so common, and, and once you start getting into those games of, oh, mine's worse, oh, mine's worse, there's somebody who is always going to have more or worse than you.

So getting away from the comparison because your trauma is your trauma, whatever happened and whatever it was and whoever did it, it mattered. To you. So it doesn't matter if it's as extreme as somebody else's. And that is a big reason, especially women, like we tend to poo poo everything like, Oh, I'm fine.

I'm fine. Like, look, look, this person has it so much worse. I'm totally fine, but you're not always totally fine. And you're not, you do sometimes need some help to get through it. And it's very easy for us to just be, you know, [00:34:00] not want to bother somebody or not want to, Burden others with, with our issues, but we sometimes need to, and your friends and your family, if they're good friends and family, they want to help and they want to be there too.

So the book was just a very, it was a love letter to my childhood. It was, it was the, all right, it's okay. It's all right.

We got it. We're adults now, you know, and kind of showing where I came from. And where I am now and the same with other people and just kind of adding in this is why it's important to have art of any form into your life like any kind of creativity and it doesn't matter if it's painting or cooking or reading or doing something That you just enjoy like hiking, like hiking is a way to be creative too.

You know, like you, it doesn't have to be your job. It doesn't have to make you money to make you [00:35:00] happy. And if you're incorporating something like that into your life, every single day, you're going to be a much, much happier and healthier person. I survived cancer twice. I wholeheartedly blamed the fact that I was as stressed out and as just not taking care of myself, putting everybody ahead of myself. I truly believe that that's why I got sick. Unfortunately. It happened. I'm here. I'm great. You know, it's fine, but, I think that that is a big reason we're seeing a lot of health epidemics in our country right now too.

I mean, not to mention the lack of health insurance and everything else that people don't have right now, but also that we're stressed out. We're overworked. We're overstressed. We have commercials yelling at us every two seconds about what we need to be or do. We're Whatever worthy of whatever it is they're trying to make us feel unworthy of, watch the Kardashians, watch here are these super rich people that you [00:36:00] will never ever be neighbors with, but, you know, this is what you should be striving for and that's not fair.

It just isn't and it just stresses people out. And, you know, it's, we're in this. Capitalists kind of society where, I mean, the dollar does rule. So, and we have bills to pay and we have things that we need, but we don't also need, you know, Louis Vuitton bags. 

Brad Minus: I agree. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Make me happy, 

Brad Minus: I want to talk about those two bouts, but I want to ask you first a couple of just a couple of little like trivia questions. One is, is that what I'm getting from you and I'm starting to see it, but I'm not sure. Were you, are you on either the cusp or are you generation X 

Elizabeth Snyder: cusp? Yeah. 

I was born in 80s. 

Brad Minus: Okay. Oh yeah. You're right at the end of generation X. Explains your worth, that work ethic and the way that you said, Oh, we have all, we, we, we, we're always working. We're doing this stuff. No, I was going to say, if you're not generation X after that. They don't know what a work ethic is.

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, [00:37:00] well, I don't know. Millennials work pretty hard. Like, we had it kind of rough. Like, we had like three different, stock dumps we had to survive a lot of stuff. And then, the housing market crash. And then, you know, there was a whole bunch of stuff that kind of went into Our demise.

Brad Minus: Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, 1990. We had 1999 and then, but then 2008, right? So 2008, the millennials are in the workforce. So they're getting that. But you know, what I see as far as generation X goes and the baby boomers were like, it happens. Okay. Let's dig ourselves out.

Elizabeth Snyder: Right. 

Brad Minus: The very next day, we got our hands dirty. I feel like Millennials and Gen Z. Want to cry about it, want to blame everybody but themselves. They'll finally get to work and they'll figure it out. But the opportunities are so much more than what we had. You know what I mean, I worked at McDonald's. I worked to make them to meet. I worked at [00:38:00] Olive Garden. I worked at the movie theater. Every little thing just to get a buck. And I was privileged, because my parents knew work ethic and they wanted the best for me.

You know, they wanted me to do better than they did, which is what we want for our kids, right? We always want our kids to be, to do better than we did. And they were adamant about it, you know, and they set me up for success. That's how I was privileged. I didn't grow up with money. I was lower middle class, as a kid.

And then when I got to school, I had to pay my own way, do everything like that. So the privilege that I had, which if you want to call it as far as privilege goes, is that my parents wanted it for me. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Right. 

Brad Minus: That's the privilege I had. Right, and that's a huge thing. 

Elizabeth Snyder: If you have supportive parents in your early years and your developing years, like, that is a huge deal. Because there are a ton of people that don't. And they don't know how to even be an adult. I was out at 18, like, I had to figure it out and I [00:39:00] did thank God, but, it could have easily been a disaster.

Things are just so different, you know, and I don't know if it's necessarily for me anyway, from what I've experienced with my kids, friends and with them and things like that, like they're definitely Gen Z, but they're also very kind people and very caring and well, at least the kids that I'm exposed to, very strong feelings about things and, I'm hoping that means that they're going to change things cause I'm too old, but, I'm looking forward to seeing what the world looks like in another 20 years because, I truly think that this is the generation that is like, so sick of it.

It's just, we don't want to pay 10 for hamburger. We are done with this. We're going to go vegan, you know, or whatever it is, so it's, yeah, I think we're on an upward trajectory, and I think that, I have hope, I have hope that things are going to get easier and cheaper, and, you're not going to have [00:40:00] to take out two mortgages to, make ends meet.

So, I guess we'll just see. I 

Brad Minus: I agree. We're on the, we are on this. We are in the soup. I have a hat that I love and it basically the future is looking brighter. And I wear that all the time to remind people that I think that's, the direction that we're going.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I think with the people, and the new, the people that are now becoming into the workforce, because let me tell you something I make my money through IT. I'm a project program manager for IT. 

I do, kind of freelance whenever there's a project, someone gives me a project, I run a team and then we get whatever they want done, but I was working chase chase bank and I was a contractor, so I didn't have a lot of. Leeway. They did decide to hire me full time just so I can take care of HR and I had somebody That, decided not to come in one day, just didn't show up, just didn't show up.

Now, in my time, if you didn't show [00:41:00] up, you didn't call, you didn't even try to make an excuse. No, no, no, you walk in the next day and you basically handed your keys and your apron or whatever you had and that was it. And he walked in and I said, Oh, what are you doing? He's like, I'm going to work. I'm like, No, you're not.

You're fired. And he goes, and of course, I had just become, you know, this manager thing, just take over. They only wanted me there so I can do the HR stuff because I didn't have any bills to do it. And I'm like, Oh no, no, no, no, no. I'm your manager now. You are done. Bye. Pick up your stuff and get the heck out.

And he goes, no, you know, we have these things called unexcused absences. I'm like, huh? So sure enough, I called HR, HR goes, yeah, they get three of those a year. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Where you just don't call? 

Brad Minus: Yeah, the whole thing was, is that I didn't really care that he was out that day. Right. I had told the whole team this over and over again.

I'm like, you need to take the day off? You call, you tell your manager, or you tell me, you send an email, you say, I am not going to be in today. [00:42:00] That's it. I don't need to know anything else if you want to tell me just so we can be on the same page, you want to say, Hey, listen, I'm not feeling well, I'm gonna be fine, but I don't care.

I just want to know that you're not on your way here and you didn't get into an accident on the way here. You didn't get kidnapped or anything. I'm like, that's it. There's no other way about it. Just call in, say that you're taking a day. We'll take it off your PTO and we'll go from there. Not a big deal.

We called, we tried blah, blah, blah. We knew that he was going to voicemail and sending us the voicemail and the whole bit, we knew all that. And yet, yet he didn't want to like pick up the phone and I'm like, but yet HR says, Nope, he gets three of those.

Elizabeth Snyder: That's unbelievable. I know it's harder and harder for companies. Well, they don't want to fire people. They want to lay you off Or not let you up. They don't want it to be their decision. They want you to quit Because at least in New York State they have like this workers stuff that they have to pay out anyway So employers are like it's better if they just [00:43:00] quit so they let them get away with like a ton of stuff before they, before they, It's an 

Brad Minus: It's good. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Okay, good. But yeah, I haven't heard of that one. That's new for me. 

Brad Minus: Oh, 

Elizabeth Snyder: That was 

Brad Minus: 2008. 

Elizabeth Snyder: It's only gotten worse. That's insane to me. I can't imagine not even calling, like I definitely call it, but that's why it's called calling it. 

Brad Minus: Yes. It's Gen X er. As a Gen X er, we know there is no way in heck that I was going to do that.

Listen, I'll tell you one just recently. I speak at podcast conventions and I had met somebody and, it just became friendly, you know, and so I'd spent some time and we chatted and everything else and she was working at this group home or something. And she goes and all of a sudden, you know, she's complaining that she doesn't have any money.

And yet she's like, yeah, I'm not going to work today. I'm like, you're not going to work today? And she's like, yeah, I'm going to be working with [00:44:00] this person, I don't want to work, I don't want to work with them, so I'm not going to go to work today. You're just not going to go to work.

I'm like, okay. You just told me you're without money. I mean, that's just life. It's an adult, you know, you go to work, make your money. And she's on hourly. It wasn't like she was on salary. She just picked another day. I'm like, no, you're like, and boy, when she, I'm like, you are one entitled fricking Gen Z er and she got so ticked at me.

And I was like, think about it. Think about it. You're sitting here. On one hand, you're telling me you're broke. And on the other hand, you're telling me you're not going to go to work. Which is your income. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: And I'm like, that's, 

Elizabeth Snyder: that's special. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. And I'm like, so, and that's, I've heard that from a bunch of people.

So it was just like, no, I don't feel like it's going to work. Okay. So anyway, I want to step back real quick. You're a two time cancer survivor. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah, 

Brad Minus: we went through your story and we didn't get to that part.[00:45:00] 

Elizabeth Snyder: It's a blip. So, yeah, my first it wasn't full blown cancer. It was like, so, you know, I guess well kids now they get HPV vaccines and so the reason they're doing that is because it causes Esophagus and some other kind of cancer and then ovarian. Yeah. So it's got like connotations for both boys, well, men and women.

So we didn't have that. And I ended up with pre cervical cancer. So I had to be treated for that. I was like 27, maybe 28. I wasn't very old. And then when I was 35, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer and that was a whole nother, whole nother deal. If you're gonna get cancer, thyroid is probably the easiest that you can have because they just take it out and give you radiation and then you're good.

but that's if you find the right doctor to catch it in time. [00:46:00] And if you, you know, find the right surgeon who isn't going to argue about what it is that you need. So, they do something when they test for that called a fine needle aspiration and it's exactly what it sounds. I just take a sample from your neck, to check to see if it was cancer and they can only do it like three times.

And so I went. to have it done, and whoever they had doing it was new, and so all three times that she did it, it came out inconclusive. And so when I was talking to the surgeon, he was like, all right, Well, we could just take the part that is enlarged because it's just gonna get bigger and you're gonna end up suffocating eventually.

We just needed to get that part out. And if it isn't cancerous, then you have that other part of your thyroid and we can work with that. But I knew, like, you know how you just know sometimes? Like, I knew and I did not want another surgery and I'm like, you know what? We just need to take the whole thing.

And it turns out I had, there are three different kinds of cancers that you can get in [00:47:00] your thyroid. I had two of them. Yeah, so they took the thyroid. I got treated with, radiation. It really, it was not chemo. It was very easy. It was not a big deal at all. Thank God. But yeah, I don't want to repeat that.

So I've been making a point of taking, you Taking care of me first and then, taking care of everybody else. So it's, it's been a hard shift because I never, like I took care of my brothers and then I took care of my husband and then I took care of my kids and now I'm taking care of everybody, but it, it was something my husband and I had talked about and, he, he values, he values me being around you. So we, he's, we both had conversations around, well, make sure you're doing this and make sure you're doing that. Did, you get on the treadmill today and it's not about losing weight. It's about just staying 

Brad Minus: healthy.

Elizabeth Snyder: So, and I know that that's where he's coming from. So I'm not like angry when he [00:48:00] says that. But yeah, it just, I truly blame the amount of stress and, the lack of self care, for getting sick. And I truly believe that that is why a lot of people are getting sick is because they don't have time or inclination, or maybe they don't know better or whatever it is that they need to take care of themselves because everything is mental and it just kind of goes down into the physical and it will.

Brad Minus: Absolutely. And I've got several other episodes on here to, prove your case study. Without a doubt, but that's amazing. So they took it out, you did radiation and now I'm imagining, I think, so you're going to tell me right now, but you and like every single woman in my family.

And both sides of my family are on Synthroid. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yes. Yep. 

Brad Minus: Yes. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Levothyroxine. 

Brad Minus: One. Yep. Every single one. On both sides of my family. My dad's side and my mom's side. [00:49:00] They're all on Synthroid. So, I'm waiting for the doctor to tell me. 

Elizabeth Snyder: What area are you in? 

Brad Minus: So right now I live in Tampa, 

Elizabeth Snyder: okay. All right. So Midwest. So kind of like Buffalo. Yeah. So we actually are the thyroid cancer capital of the world. The last time I checked, what's in 

Brad Minus: What's in the Buffalo sauce? 

Elizabeth Snyder: No, it's, it's what's in the water. No, for real, we had so many chemicals and I don't know if you, I don't know how old you are, but, we had this big disaster called Love Canal that happened in the 70s, and it was all of that OxyChem garbage that they dumped into the ground.

In not far from here, we have, a town where they are keeping Manhattan Project waste as well. So it's, it's in the soil, it's in the soil, it's in the water. There's this whole area of North Toronto where, they have toxic signs up on everybody's houses because they were not told that they were moving into a toxic site.

It's been hidden for 40 years or however long they've been doing it and [00:50:00] my stepdaughter's mom lives in that neighborhood and her daughters have had all kinds of problems. She has had cancer. I don't know how many times, birth, deformities and, not being able to get pregnant, like that kind of stuff, all very, very prevalent here.

So yeah, I was not surprised. What are you? 

Brad Minus: still doing there? 

Elizabeth Snyder: It's cheap here. I keep seeing all of these articles pop up of Buffalo is like going to be a hot spot because that's the only place people can afford to buy a house. It's just, it's very cheap here. Our family's here. It just, it is. 

Brad Minus: So my passion, if you've read about my actual passion is, is, I coach, I'm a endurance coach.

That's my like true passion is I love to coach. people that are doing marathons and they're doing stuff way outside their comfort zone. So marathons, triathlons, Ironman triathlons, ultra marathons, you know, like hundred mile races and stuff like that. Crazy, crazy stuff. I train people to do that. [00:51:00] But I did a, what we call Ironman 70.

3 distance in Niagara Falls. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Oh, cool. It's 

Brad Minus: called Barrelman. And it's, I think I know what that 

Elizabeth Snyder: is. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, it's 1. 2 mile swim, a 56 mile bike, and then a half marathon, and a half marathon is a two loop course in the park over by the falls, so you pass by the falls twice, and you go up, and there's some hills up there, and there was a set of steps we had to go up, that was like, it 10 flights, but, beautiful.

Elizabeth Snyder: There. 

Brad Minus: I imagine you do. Yeah, I was, and I have a bunch of pets. So, going over the rainbow bridge was kind of like solemn for me. Yeah. So, but that was great. But we went into Buffalo, for pizza. We went to Buffalo style pizza one night and get to, yeah.

Authentic buffalo wings. Just to, so we can say we got authentic buffalo wings. Right, you have to. So, and I thought buffalo was kind of nice. I mean, it was, it was a city. [00:52:00] But it was well taken care of, at least the part that I was in. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Don't have a garbage problem now, like, you know, New York or some other bigger cities that I've been to.

We don't, it's, you know, people here are pretty friendly. We're pretty, 

Brad Minus: you 

Elizabeth Snyder: I really do love where we live. I just. I don't like the winters, and so eventually I'll move to New Zealand or something, 

Brad Minus: I live in Tampa, Florida, and I live here for a reason.

So yeah, we had a cold spell like the last two weeks, and you know, it got down to 37. And I was cold. You probably shut down for the whole week. And I'm yelling at myself. I'm like, you are such a wimp. Ever since you moved to Tampa, 37 degrees, we were outside. Do you remember? 

Elizabeth Snyder: Oh, yeah. 

Brad Minus: Just had you had a hoodie. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Like spring out today. 

Brad Minus: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And I'm like at 37, I am freezing. I like gloves on a little hat. I kind of like that stuff. But I remember back when 37, you're like, you just put on a hoodie. And one of those like puffy vests and you were, and you were good.

Elizabeth Snyder: Moving, you're warm. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:00] Exactly. You gotta move. Gotta move. So. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Florida will make you a wimp about the cold for sure. 

Brad Minus: Oh, oh, a hundred percent. 100%. But I will tell you that Florida, being that it's so humid down here, 50 degrees here feels a lot colder than 50 degrees back in Chicago.

50 degrees back in Chicago, I'm still okay with, you know, minor jacket walking around 50 degrees here. Different story with the humidity. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Yeah. 

Brad Minus: Two bouts of cancer growing up having to take care of your brothers and then being you know divorce early single mother Now you are a you are Taking doing what you love full time and your writing and the whole bit.

So Wow, you are such an inspiration elizabeth and well, and to bring the audience back in here Listen everybody you got to check out you definitely have to check out her instagram. It's loaded with her pictures and [00:54:00] it's she's on elizabeth snyder photography llc that's her handle on On Instagram, and then of course, I think this is ElizabethSnyderPhotography.

com, check that out. The pictures are, like, crazy, everybody. So, if you're looking at stuff, she does boudoir headshots, and she does, like, women's, women's photography. Quick 

Elizabeth Snyder: glamour, yeah, yeah. 

Brad Minus: Yep. Headshots. Corporate shots. The whole bit. If you need some great photography done and you happen to be in the upstate New York area, or if you just happen to be filthy rich and you want to fly her in, Hey, you know what?

I'm here for it. She's your girl. Now. Don't forget that her, her book is out unbroken, finding your purpose beyond trauma. So that is out and is that on Amazon? 

Elizabeth Snyder: It is. 

Brad Minus: Okay. So we'll have a link to that in all the formats, , 

Elizabeth Snyder: and we'll 

Brad Minus: So in the show notes, you'll get her website, you'll get [00:55:00] a link right directly to the book.

You'll gonna get her Instagram and all of her socials. So if you wanna contact her, ask her about how she wrote the book, 

Elizabeth Snyder: no, not at all. I'm enjoying it. 

Brad Minus: So, 

Elizabeth Snyder: yeah, fly me into Vegas. 

Brad Minus: Yeah. I'm telling you, everybody, if you take one look at that website or on her Instagram, you're going to want her to take your pictures.

They're amazing and what she's done and she's, and you know, what's beautiful about it and you'll see it is that she doesn't, she's not over glamorizing like models and stuff. She's got. pictures of women and guys, of all shapes and sizes, ethnicities, the whole bit. So check it out and you'll be just astounded as what this woman can do with a camera.

Unbelievable. So, but other than that, if you just happen to be watching on YouTube, I'd love for you to go ahead and hit that, like that, subscribe, hit the notification bell. So you always know when we drop a new episode, if you're listening on [00:56:00] Apple or on Spotify, go ahead and give us a review. And I don't even care if it's a bad review, because I'm always looking to evolve the podcast and your.

input and feedback helps me do that. And you know what? Don't forget to check out all the cool links in the show notes. So for Elizabeth, thank you very much for joining us. 

Elizabeth Snyder: Thank you for having me. 

Brad Minus: And for myself, thank you for listening and we'll see you in the next one.