Life-Changing Challengers
Dive into the heart of transformation with "Life-Changing Challengers," a podcast that inspires listeners to turn their challenges into opportunities for growth. Hosted by Brad Minus, a seasoned endurance coach with over 13 years of experience, this show brings you compelling stories of resilience, ambition, and personal triumph.
Brad and his guests share their journeys of overcoming obstacles through endurance sports, personal development, and pursuing passions. From completing Ironman triathlons to conquering personal and professional hurdles, "Life-Changing Challengers" is your guide to breaking barriers and achieving your dreams.
Whether you're looking to incinerate your limits, find inspiration to chase your big passion or enjoy motivational stories of people who've transformed their lives, this podcast is for you. Join us to explore how embracing challenges can lead to a happier, more fulfilled life.
Subscribe, review, and share to be part of a community dedicated to making every challenge a stepping stone to success. Follow "Life-Changing Challengers" to ignite your desire, push your boundaries, and embark on your journey to the extraordinary.
Life-Changing Challengers
Overcoming Sexual Addiction: Logan Hufford's Journey from Struggle to Recovery
Could the path to recovery be hidden in the last place you'd think to look? Logan Hufford, a mentor for those grappling with sexual addiction, joins us on Life Changing Challengers to share his powerful story. Raised in a loving conservative Christian family in Alaska, Logan's journey takes us from the icy landscapes of his hometown to the warmer, bustling environments of places like Houston. His passion for sports and a career in sales couldn't shield him from the deep-rooted struggles he faced, but his candid recounting of these experiences is both eye-opening and inspiring.
Logan's battle with sexual addiction began with early objectification and evolved into a pattern of risky behaviors and infidelity, affecting both his personal and professional life. Discover the psychological triggers and complex nature of addiction as Logan opens up about his darkest moments. From losing jobs to nearly losing his marriage, Logan's story is a stark reminder of the powerful grip of addiction. However, what stands out is his transformative journey through faith-based recovery programs like SAA, Celebrate Recovery, and Prodigals International. Logan's commitment to mentorship and accountability became the pillars of his recovery, allowing him to rebuild his life and marriage.
Now, as a mentor, Logan dedicates his life to helping others navigate their way out of addiction. This episode sheds light on the importance of community, faith, and ongoing support systems for those struggling with sexual addiction. Tune in to hear how Logan's experiences have shaped his approach to mentorship, the significance of sobriety coins, and the vital role of mutual recovery in relationships. Don't miss this heartfelt conversation that promises to offer hope, guidance, and a renewed sense of possibility for anyone facing similar battles. Follow Logan on Instagram for more insights and support as you embark on your own journey to recovery.
Contact Logan @ Prodigals of Alaska
Instagram: @no.longer.in.bondage
LinkedIn: @logan-hufford
ProdigalsofAlaska.com
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Contact Brad @ Life Changing Challengers
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LifeChangingChallengers.com
And we're back and welcome back to another episode of Life Changing Challengers. As always, I'm your host, brad Minus, and I am very lucky to have on the show today Logan Hufford. He is a prodigal's sexual addiction mentor. So, as you can tell, we're straying off a little bit from our normal episodes of fitness and stuff and we're walking into more of an addiction and coming back from addiction, and Logan's got a great story. So I just want to say Logan, welcome, and how are you doing today? You're out there in Alaska, right?
Logan Hufford:Yes, sir. Yeah, I'm doing well, Brad. Thank you so much for giving the opportunity to talk with you.
Brad Minus:Oh no, the honor is all mine, Brad. Thank you so much for giving the opportunity to talk with you. Oh no, the honor is all mine. So you're in Alaska, right?
Logan Hufford:now. So this is still summer for you too, right? Yep, okay, yeah, we do get beautiful summer days Like right now. It's mid seventies. It's gorgeous outside Now mid seventies, like I'm wearing shorts and a t-shirt. You're not going to catch me in anything more than that. This is like hot weather for us, and we also only get maybe 10 to 12 days a year like this oh, okay, yeah, we take them when we get them.
Brad Minus:Yeah, I can imagine and I and if you would have come down here? So I'm the total opposite. You're like, let's see, if I look at this way, you're like over here in Alaska and I'm down here in Florida, so it's like completely different. But just a little anecdote. And then I want to get to you. But I used to be in the military, I was in Washington DC and I'll never, ever, I'll never, ever forget. We had a bunch of people that were what we call PCS and transferring their slot at the Pentagon from Alaska. And it was like midwinter and we're all in like wool sweaters and we get, we're all bundled up and stuff. These guys come in and they're in shorts and t-shirts and sandals and we're like what the heck is going on. But they had come from Alaska, so they were doing PT at 40 below and I was just like that was just crazy to me. But it didn't take them long before they start getting cold. Yep.
Logan Hufford:My brother lived in Tennessee and Georgia and now Arizona and he grew up here and he's the exact same way. It was within two years of living in Tennessee. He would complain when it would get below 60. It's like dude, come on, you lived in Alaska for 20 years.
Brad Minus:And I hear it. I grew up in Chicago but we don't have Alaska winters, but we got pretty nasty ones. Yeah, yeah, great. I got to tell you we were out the golf course at 50s and even like low, really low 50s. Right now I can't stand 50s At 50s, I'm like just brimming inside, yeah, but anyway, that's a cool thing to think about, but anyway, that's a cool thing to think about, but anyway. So, logan, why don't you start with your childhood? Why don't you tell us a little bit about the environment you lived in, what was a complement of your family and what it felt like to be?
Logan Hufford:Logan as a kid. Yeah, I had a fantastic infrastructure, definitely took it for granted at the time, but had a loving family. Both parents raised me baby of five. I'm still very close with my siblings to this day. Four of us still live in Alaska. In fact, I actually work with two of my siblings.
Logan Hufford:My parents both live in Anchorage, alaska, which is where I grew up Conservative, for better or for worse, definitely sheltered, not in a crazy way, but definitely sheltered. We lived a few miles out. Anchorage is a real city. It's not a million people or anything like that, a few hundred thousand people. It's a legitimate city infrastructure. But we were a few miles outside. We were like eight to 10 minutes outside of the main street, even like a gas station. So we were geographically sheltered and then born and raised in a I hate the term religious because that implies usually a negative connotation but like we were and we went to church, not just culturally but like we were. We had a really healthy family, generally speaking of my parents, taught us right from wrong. They lived it again, took all this for granted as a kid. Right, I didn't like the rules I didn't. But I don't think there's ever a time in my life growing up, where I didn't feel safe and loved, which I know now. Those are a couple of bold statements, and yet they're true.
Brad Minus:What was the religion that you grew up in? If you don't want me to ask.
Logan Hufford:Yeah, no, not at all, and it's. It's still part of my life, it's just there's ownership of it now recently, versus just as a kid going to church. Yeah, non-denominational christian, um beautiful, always been part of my life no, that's great, and then I don't.
Brad Minus:I I think it's a. That's something that we need to bring back. So we need to get away from that idea that if you grew up in a religious family or you grew up in the church, that it's's a negative connotation. So I think this is a good. This is a good start. We needed more talk about it, that it's the morals and values, but that's neither here nor there. So you grew up in the church. You had a very loving, loving family. Were you into any sports or anything like that?
Logan Hufford:Yeah, we as a family loves sports. I have always loved sports, still do to this day. Grew Loved sports. I have always loved sports, still do to this day. Grew up playing baseball up until high school. Played basketball in high school. Just would watch any sport that's on TV, which is. It's tough living in Alaska because there's other sports fans in Alaska, but it's not the same. We don't have pro teams up here, we barely have a call. I mean we have a couple college teams like a division two basketball team. We are a couple of division two basketball teams. A division two basketball team. We are a couple division two basketball teams, a division one hockey team. That's it. No football other than high school. But loved sports always have a big part of my life for sure nice, did you play any um?
Logan Hufford:you said baseball. You said yeah, just just, I just played low level, but you played organized sports all through, all through my childhood. And then, yeah, just basketball in high school. But, yeah, you know, pick up basketball, pick up flag football, whatever I can get my hands on. Although I'm 33, I'm younger than some, older than some, but I don't get. I don't get healthier as I go in terms of my ligaments oh, yeah, no I, yeah, I hear that we can talk off camera about that maybe oh yeah, for sure, for sure.
Brad Minus:So, so what I'm getting at and tell me if I'm wrong here. But you said you were. You were Anchorage adjacent, or were you actually in the city of Anchorage?
Logan Hufford:Yeah, anchorage zip code. We were in Anchorage but we, yeah, we lived off of a road, like literally one road up a mountain, and we were eight to 10 minutes outside of like a gas station kind of thing.
Brad Minus:Okay, so was? Did you have a lot of people around you? Was it like a subdivision or?
Logan Hufford:It was a subdivision growing up three decades ago. It was much more like rural. You might go half a mile at some points without seeing another house. Now, every couple acres there's a house. Okay, not a lot of kids, though you just took the question.
Brad Minus:You just answered my question. I was just about to ask that. Well, that's great, that's great. So did you? Did you end up going to college? I?
Logan Hufford:went to college two classes for one semester, was paying for it out of pocket and quickly was like I'm just, I'm doing this just because that's what you're supposed to do after you graduate. I got no, I have no goals or ambitions that are specific to like what am I doing here. So, yeah, didn't go back after that one semester. Yeah, always enjoyed elements of learning, but definitely like traditional book learning in a school system Not my thing.
Brad Minus:I get that. With that same attitude I probably shouldn't have gone to college, but because I definitely learned more outside of it. But so I get, I totally, I totally get that. So what did you? So? What'd you end up doing after high school? What? Yeah, you had one semester, so yeah, so graduated spring of 08.
Logan Hufford:That's, let's see. I started selling Cutco knives. That was my first job. I was 17 years old, actually didn't have a license or a car when I started, which is hard to do. It's contrary to popular belief. It's like it's not actually a door to door, and door to door up in Alaska is not a good thing. Houses are far apart. Yeah, I would get rides or ride my bike or whatever I could do to get to a house and did that for several months and developed a love for sales. Was was good at it and did that for off and on a little bit, but did that for about a year and then went down to Houston Texas in oh nine. So I was 18 and I turned 19 down in Houston Texas in 09. So I was 18 and I turned 19 down in Houston.
Logan Hufford:So talking about Florida, houston, yeah, just complete opposite, right? Giant city, both population and size-wise, obviously went from negative, literally negative 20, because it was one of the coldest winters we'd had in years. So it was like negative 10 to 20 every day. And then that summer I'm going 100 to 105 degrees. And then that summer I'm going 100 to 105 degrees, 95 to 100% humidity every day, going from sheltered living with my parents and my siblings to now I'm living with a bunch of dudes in an apartment complex and I didn't have a bunch of free time. I worked long shifts. I was doing door-to-door alarm sales down there Me and a bunch of Mormons and it was down there for that summer. So there's as we'll get into later, I was it was a pretty pivotal summer and came back to Alaska and I don't want to jump too far ahead because at that point, for better for worse, that's where the story really starts to ratchet up, all right.
Brad Minus:Well, we're going to, and we're just about to do that. So, but what was it the job? Was it the alarm sales that got you down to Houston?
Logan Hufford:Not specifically, definitely not alarm sales specifically. There was some allure of you can make fantastic money doing that If you're, you're built for it. I loved sales. Didn't love door-to-door sales in a hundred degree weather, Did not love that. I did a lot of going to find a gas station and go grab a popsicle and go sit in the air conditioning for an hour. Was not built for that. But yeah, there was an allure of okay, I can make potentially 50, 60, 70 grand in the summer. Some guys made six figures that summer. I did not, but a big part of it was I could not.
Logan Hufford:I told you I've already said a couple of different times how much I took for granted my childhood, right, and so I could not wait to get out of Alaska. I could not wait to get away from my family, Not because I hated them or anything, it was just like let me go experience life, Let me go experience something different. So and I realized that can be pretty common. But now it's like those are not bad things, right, it's like, man, Alaska is a pretty sweet place to live. A lot of people are like this is their dream, right, and just totally was like bored by it. But yeah, that was the allure was just going out and experiencing something different.
Brad Minus:Yeah, Well, and that's the normal thing, right? You get out of high school. Now what do you do with your life? And if you're not, if you don't have a focus, then you got to explore, find out what happens. So that's courageous to jump out of the nest and jump into someplace, and especially negative 20 to hundreds and with a 95% of humidity. Yeah, yeah. So I, yeah, that was man. I can't imagine how bad you felt. You must've been just absolutely miserable. I just yeah, it was a heck of a thing. Yeah, All right, so so you're just on there for the summer.
Logan Hufford:Yeah, I was down there for like exactly four months. Okay.
Brad Minus:And then you head up, then you head back to, then you head back to Alaska. What did you end up doing when you got back to Alaska?
Logan Hufford:So went back to doing Cutco, selling Cutco, and ended up meeting within a couple months, meeting young lady named Carrie who would become my wife. She did Cutco for like a few months but in that time we crossed paths and job-wise I ended up moving away from that and the nature of Cutco it's you're independent and you can do it as much as or as little as you want. And so I still did it a little bit, selling to folks. But then I wanted something that was a little bit more structured. So I did a little. I worked for a coffee delivery service for a few months and then I got into the car business and again similar to Houston, but on a bigger scale. Very pivotal, very pivotal move there and definitely not for the better. But I did that for quite a long time. I was in the car business for 10 and a half years, sold cars for six years.
Brad Minus:What, what, what line did you tell with different lines, or what is it so?
Logan Hufford:I sold at Chrysler Dodge Jeep dealership from August of 10 to July of 16. I want a Jeep.
Brad Minus:Okay, I have a Jeep Cherokee so I'm cool with that. That's great yeah.
Logan Hufford:No, I just had some fun. There were some cool parts about it, but, yeah, there was a lot of elements that I'll put it this way I try not to be a controlling parent. I wouldn't ever want any of my kids to work in the car business. Hard pass. There's a lot of things that I would be fine with. Go experiment, go try this, maybe go try that. If they are like dad, I want to go work at a car dealership, I would sit them down and I would have a talk with them for a few weeks.
Brad Minus:Oh, and I'm right there with you. I don't. The only way that I get to say anything that goes on in my life is when there's a parallel. And yes, I lived in arizona and when I got out school, I got a job with an insurance company that was just starting to open up their lines in Arizona. So I was like, oh great, I'll be the first one on the ground, I'll be at the ground running blah, blah, blah. That didn't work out and for a time period afterwards I sold Hondas and, yeah, I never felt so sleazy in my life and nothing. About 10 and a half years. I get that right, but I just the way that it was back then. Now you're talking about times when there isn't computers. There's not ways to use the internet to find your people. Basically, they walked in and they didn't buy a car. Then you got their number and you just kept badgering them until they came back in to buy a new car and it just yeah, just at the time.
Logan Hufford:I just felt it just didn't feel right. I didn't long for it. It didn't last long for me, again, not to jump ahead as I share my story, that this will gain a more full-bodied context, but not joking, when I talk about, when I think about when I got out of the car business, it's, I literally think about it and refer to it as a guy getting out of prison. Yep, that's when I got out.
Brad Minus:There's zero desire ever to basically step foot in a dealership, let alone work there again. Yeah, I, yeah, I only can imagine so. But this is. This is 10 and a half years. Is your turning point, right?
Logan Hufford:it's yeah. So there's the first six years, as I'll get into. The first six years was basically not because of the car business I'm not blaming that but it was basically a hell on earth period for me and my family, as I my life just became this hell on earth Still was in the car business for four and a half years, was able to get out of the floor, and I worked in finance for four and a half years but still couldn't wait to get out of the industry, even though it was a little bit different environment.
Brad Minus:Yeah, at least in the finance. And that was that's what we all wanted, right? Everybody wanted to be okay, you're going to, you're going to pay your dues on the floor, get to sit behind a desk and you're not trying to make the sale, you're just trying to do the upsells and you're doing the financing. So yeah, so no, you got to that point.
Logan Hufford:That's what we all thought was going to be the greatest part, but all right, well, so they got to open the doors and close the doors and close the gate and drop the alarm and yeah, exactly.
Brad Minus:And then where you, and where those were the people that you went to, right, do you get to the finance people? Hey, can we get this done? What do we need? What do we need to get this done? That's that was our, that was the big, that was the vocabulary, the jargon, that was going on, yeah, so, yeah, I thought that was great. So, all right, I let's roll into this. So did you not say, do you realize? But did your behavior start before these, this, the sexual addiction behaviors, just that beginning, started that start prior to you getting into the car business? Was it after? Was it something that had been rolling around since, but even before that?
Logan Hufford:yeah, behaviors totally started before that, but it would. So there's a lot of my story that I mean you'll probably get sick of me saying versions of this there's a lot of my story where it's like there wasn't really this singular moment, this singular thing. It was a slow progression, right? Well, when it comes to that question you just asked, were the behaviors present before the car business? On one hand, there's a little bit of before and after that point, but the behaviors themselves were completely. There was a black and white difference.
Logan Hufford:So think of it like there's the cliche thing that we see on the Facebook memes about a bamboo grows for years under underground right and the roots are spreading and all you don't see anything until it starts shooting out of the ground and then it's just crazy. Honestly, I should probably learn the science of that so I can spout it better, because that is exactly what my sexual addiction looked like, literally, as a kid looking at not even what anyone would generally define as pornography. Literally. The first time I sexually objectified pictures of women, it was lingerie and bikini ads in a JC Penney magazine, because that's what was available to me. There were no Playboys. We're talking late nineties. There's no iPads and smartphones. So that was my introduction to pornography. Not technically even porn right it was but I say it's my introduction to porn though, because it was me sexually objectifying pictures of women. So to me I'm like that's a pretty good definition of porn. So that's as a kid. And then eventually get to the point where I'm. I learned how to masturbate. I'm looking at videos, hardcore videos, online, and this is not a quick progression time-wise, this was over the course of a few years. So, like I had shame, I felt bad about it, but for one, I didn't do it very often because I didn't have the opportunity to do it very often, Wanted to more often, but you didn't have the opportunity, and then I could also totally unhealthy, but I could also dismiss it somewhat. Well, it's not so bad, like I'm not doing this and that, and it's only so often.
Logan Hufford:I've always been a people person. I've always enjoyed people, but I was always very shy around girls. I felt extremely insecure. I felt extremely insecure. I always felt ugly. I always felt like girls wouldn't like me. So, behavior wise, there was very little interaction between me and girls my age in this realm at all Very little, because I was just so shy. I wasn't a shy person, but I was shy around girls my age. So when I'm looking at my life, the first 18 years of my life, I was like a little preacher's boy kind of thing in terms of like the stereotypical behavior, even though the seeds had been planted. Literally from that early age I had started training myself to seek after new and different and more obviously, didn't know that at the time, right, but that's what I was doing with the type of porn that I would watch. And then, as I got older, how I interacted with women my age or, at that point, girls my age.
Logan Hufford:I can, if I can, just jump into Houston here, because that really is, that's a big thing. So I went down to Houston, texas, as of course I'm sure people can assume, I'm going from this healthy, pretty sheltered, safe infrastructure right Now I'm going down to this big city where, again, I didn't have a lot of free time, but that didn't really matter. Seriously, I thank God I didn't have a lot of free time. Thank God I didn't have a car of my own. I had to borrow a car because I got myself into plenty of trouble and who knows what would have happened if I had my own car if I had more time off. I worked six days a week like 12 hour shifts, but in those nights I would.
Logan Hufford:I think it took me probably a month or two really to like ramp up and get over my fears and stuff like that, but I started to see some okay, I can get some attention from girls, I can get some attention from women, and once I saw that with not porn but with women in front of me, they would give me attention, I started going hog wild fast and so my introduction to sexual encounters with women started down there, as well as partying, mixing that with mixing alcohol, with sexual encounters, drugs with sexual encounters. I'm not exaggerating when I say I'm so thankful that I had that I didn't have more freedoms down there, because I literally wanted to be as risky and do all the things that I couldn't do before. I want to be as risky as possible. Just the more risk the better.
Brad Minus:So so we know that hindsight's 2020, right. So let's just put that out there, cause this is, we're getting a little bit of both right right now. You're you're telling me that you were. You're thank God that you didn't, but while you were in it, you weren't thinking that at all. So I just want to let's just put that out there and it's okay, I'm cool with 2020.
Brad Minus:What do you think is the difference between and somebody else who's 19, coming off of a rural area, coming out of this well-adjusted, very organized, scheduled area with your parents, church and everything else, and finally getting this taste of freedom and finally realizing that, hey, you know what, there are some girls out there that actually liked me, all right, cool.
Brad Minus:What do you think is the difference there? Because I don't know anybody else and I was in a fraternity and in college and none of what you tell me right now is any different than I've seen people go in it, go into it for a few months and be like they went hog wild, just like you mentioned, and then it would could mellow out for years. Yeah, a lot of times it'd be four for four years. It wasn't a different girl every night for four years, but there was definitely highs and lows and stuff, but yeah, but they were able to walk away from it and it seems like you were saying the same thing. So what do you think the difference is between you and just a normal 19 year old that happened to be in the same situation?
Logan Hufford:I, I don't. I don't know what the difference is, but I just did to unpack a little bit of like what it was to be logan at that time, and it was outside of the sexual arena too. Driving I I would drive as fast, I'm not joking, I would drive as fast as I could with zero regard for anything. Zero regard for I might get a ticket, zero regard for I might kill someone, zero regard for I'm. This is in alaska. This is most of my early driving was in the winter time because he took a summer out or I wasn't driving down there would routinely drive about 120 on winter highways. I used to, as an ego thing, see there's a suburb of anchorage, technically a suburb called eagle river, and I could be off a little bit. But you're depending on where you're coming from it. It should take you about 15 minutes to get from Eagle river to Anchorage from, like the outskirts of Anchorage and as an ego thing, I would see how quickly I could get there and I could usually do in about seven minutes.
Logan Hufford:He let a 65. Yeah, I remember going 140 miles an hour, which is the fastest. I toyed a camera would let me drive and that actually scared the crap out of me. 140 is not something that we're meant to do, and definitely not in a Toyota Camry, but that didn't keep me from still driving like that. So and I say that because obviously that has nothing to do with sex, and yet that has everything to do with where my brain was at right, has everything to do with how I treated risk.
Logan Hufford:And there's this weird thing about me too that when I look back and I remember even being in it, I was always I was very conservative. In some ways I was very risk adverse. In some ways I wanted to and I know I literally just said I want to take all the risk right. Both of these statements are true and I'll try to make sense of it. I wanted to do all the wild and crazy things, but I did my best to be very careful that I wouldn't get caught, whether by the cops or this lady's boyfriend or whatever. So there was this weird balance of and I think a lot of that was ego. I can play with fire, I can get in the fire and I'll know when to get out. I think that's where how it boiled down.
Brad Minus:So you had this part of you that would completely let go of your inhibitions at some at one point, but yet you would tow the line of jumping, of grabbing one just enough, so you didn't get caught.
Logan Hufford:Yeah, cause I'm smart enough, I I know enough, I've got good enough intuition I can get out before I'll get caught yeah, and it makes sense.
Brad Minus:When you're in alaska, that makes complete sense. You grew up there. You probably knew where all the where the cops hid. You might even knew some of the cops. So, yeah, that makes sense. In houston, though that would have been, that would have been the difference, of course, you didn't have a car, but some of the other behaviors you were going through. But while you were down there, I think that would have been a different story. So you know what. I just have to ask, because in this behavior they're talking about where you're trying to drop inhibitions you got this ego going on and everything else. Were you doing some pretty good numbers? I said that you didn't make six figures, but were you doing some pretty good numbers as far as your sales were going?
Logan Hufford:Down in Houston. Yeah, no, it was like we literally joke about it, Me and my family. I, cause I had rent, came out of my paycheck Cause they put us up in like pretty decent apartments. I owed money at the end of the summer. I owed money at the end of the summer. I owed money. It was so bad I totally quit I don't remember if it was like the first week or a month in, but pretty darn quickly I was like yeah, screw this, I guess I'm down here for the summer. But like yeah, I'm not cut out for this, I know I. I made no money.
Brad Minus:Okay, I was thinking. I was thinking about that because that's the one thing that salespeople just love the fact you can get to that point where you just drop that fear of not getting the sale, you drop the fear of rejection and all that stuff. Now you're freaking bulletproof and you're kicking butt and bulletproof. I figured that would have just transferred over, but unfortunately it didn't.
Logan Hufford:No, in some ways I had some of that attitude, just like I definitely didn't earn it with my sales, all right. Well, that attitude, that ego, that like twisted ego, I really, I truly did have that when it came to I mean so I use this word and I've gotten pushed back on this word and I can't understand why, but I'm going to use it because it describes me. So I became an absolute predator. Okay, I trained myself to get whatever I could get from any female in my path, virtually any woman in my path. I would take and squeeze and get what I could get. And if that was sexual contact all the way, I would get that. If it was sexual texting, I would get that. If it was a flirty comment and nothing more, I would take that and move on. And then and again, like that risk adverse part of me, if somebody maybe would come what are you talking about? I would like oh, I was just goofing around, I was just joking. I'd always have some sort of a way to reel it back in, right, but that's just.
Logan Hufford:I learned free and in some ways I started to learn this, maybe a little bit. A few months before I went down to houston with there were a couple girls that I knew that. But really when I went down to houston was literally just. It was like and I don't sometimes when I describe stuff I do want to be careful that I don't want to glorify any of this. That's not my purpose at all and I also don't want to demean the people that I hurt, the women that I hurt but it was very much. It was like a you watch a documentary of a lion learning to hunt, like that. That. What Houston was me as like a lion cub learning how to seek after prey and that's gross verbiage, but that's what it was Like. That was me just taking what I could get from anybody in my path. Basically.
Brad Minus:No, I think the vocabulary is perfect. You already called yourself a predator, right? So you've already taken that ownership. So I think what you're saying and the route that you're going right now is fine. You've already taken the ownership, you know what you did, and now you're just telling us the story. So, whatever, however, you want to continue in telling us the behaviors that you were doing, that's fine. I don't think you need to. I don't think anything you're going to say is going to demean anybody, because you've already done that. You've already taken the ownership, so now we can just tell the story. How did the? How did we get? How did you start when you got back to Alaska? How did things start to fall apart? Oh wait, before we get to that, yeah, you met Carrie before you went to Houston, though, right?
Logan Hufford:No, so I, when I came back from Houston, I went back to Cutco for a little bit and I met Carrie.
Brad Minus:Okay, that's what I just wanted to clarify that for everybody. Just to make sure that so, cause there would have been a bunch of other questions that I would have had if you went down there. In order, her too, yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure.
Logan Hufford:So I went back to Alaska and if you had a security camera or if you're at a documentary film crew on me, logan went back to the Logan of 2008. I went back. I'm living with my parents, I'm going to church every sunday. Well, this is a. We don't have to dive into this, but when I was in houston, I went to church every sunday. There too, there was like a whole that's. That's how I can dive into that, but that's a whole.
Logan Hufford:Other piece is like, even when I was living that way and I continued living that way for a I never, ever. I was about to use like a quadruple negative I always valued, even if it was just in my head. I always valued Christianity. I always valued people who knew Christ, even though for me I felt very much like I guess it's not for me, but at least when I want to be close to them. So like I would party all night on Saturday and then still go to church on Sunday, because I and I had to get a ride too. It wasn't easy. I wasn't walking to church or had my own car, like I had to work hard to get there, and I still and I don't say that for any other reason, other than as my story progresses, eventually, as we, you know, zooming ahead just real quickly is eventually, as we, you know, zooming ahead just real quickly as things got brighter years later. I very much see the spiritual connection there that, you know, god, never, I never lost sight of valuing god, even though there was a lot of hopelessness for a lot of years. But so when I went back to to alaska, literally just like back to being the good boy, um, and again where we lived, like I wasn't sneaking out at night and yeah, because I'm driving, I'm not going eight to ten miles, that kind of thing. So it was like pornography and masturbation when I could get a little privacy and there was nobody around, but still I wasn't partying. I wasn't like because I didn't want to, even though I was an adult. My mom would not have been cool with me going out, partying and coming out. So I was very like much the good boy and met Carrie towards the end of 2009. So I'm 19 years old, she's 19 as well.
Logan Hufford:Carrie had the opposite upbringing. She grew up in Anchorage, she grew up that. That's like the only similarity. We were born in the same year in the same city. Other than that, completely different backgrounds, broken home, no going to church, no God abuse, trauma. She had it all when we met in 2009,.
Logan Hufford:I realize if you're listening to the podcast you can't see this, but so my foundation, my infrastructure that I was born into was like this phenomenal infrastructure. There's no perfect family, but there was a lot of healthy stuff there. She was born in a very unhealthy, very broken home. She had been introduced to Christianity by actually an incredibly unhealthy, damaging person in her life, but she was introduced to Christianity like, literally was brought to church by somebody and she accepted Christ as her savior, even though it was like this terrible relationship, anyways. So she is seeking after healthy living. She's like trying to build healthy infrastructure. She's like trying to figure out how to live healthy. Even though she's got some, she's got a lot of her infrastructure. That still is her childhood, that she's still working on Right, and I'm like trying to actively shed that going the other way. So we meet at the same point like art.
Logan Hufford:We had probably about as about the equal amount of healthy infrastructure in our lives, in our routines, in terms of what we would do and what we would allow ourselves to do, except I was actively looking to get unhealthy and she was actively trying to get healthy and that's honestly, that's something that, like, definitely I see in hindsight, even in the moment. I think I recognize that, although I certainly didn't realize the trajectory that I was on, not to that level. But so we started dating very quickly, amazingly, and this kind of connects back to like me going to church in Houston. One of the things that was really attractive about her was that she was very open about that. She was a Christian and she was open about this new faith and because even at that time, even though I was actively seeking to get more unhealthy, in a lot of ways I recognized like hey, like that's a, that's a virtue, that's a good thing, that's a good character trait, I put it that way and we talked about what we wanted out of life. We actually had I made like so many terrible decisions and yet there was actually like one piece of the early part of a relationship that was really good, which is we had very real and raw conversations about what we wanted in life and the fact that we both wanted kids, we both wanted to get married, we both wanted it like not to each other. Necessarily we were just friends at this point, but we wanted to have a family and we wanted to homeschool our kids. We talked about all these things before we even started dating. We just had these deep conversations.
Logan Hufford:We started dating and then for the next several months honestly felt okay, like I think that's behind me, like all that crazy stuff, because now I'm in this relationship with this person I really care about and what really what it was. A lot of this, like this lust, this me seeking after the high they would come from, this attention. It transformed into infatuation for several months. So porn didn't completely go away, but it went way down for several months. I didn't really have the opportunities necessarily to flirt and seek out a lot of attention from other girls, but whether I had the opportunity or not, I wasn't really doing that. So I'm looking around, going okay, I think we're pretty good here. I told her that I struggled with porn. That was something that I was working on and at that time I thought that was an honest statement, like that. I struggled, but I'm working on it and that's that. And so I around this time I'm working for that coffee delivery service, doing that a few months. That's fine. No, no issues there as far as sexually.
Logan Hufford:Actually got fired because of my driving. Got fired because not because I was, I wasn't speeding or anything but I hit I'm not joking, I hit a building in this delivery van. Yeah, we'll leave that for part two. Uh, I hit a building and so I got fired. He's like, yeah, we. He's like we don't have another job to give you, we can't have you as a driver. So bye, I got fired on my birthday, oh, which was fun.
Logan Hufford:And seven or no, five days later, august 16th of 2010, I got a job at Anchorage Chrysler Center and I literally was like I'm going to get this job and I'll just do this for a couple weeks, a couple months, until I find something real. And I ended up working there for almost exactly six years and at that job, I did really well at that job and I was not the most knowledgeable, I was not the slickest salesman, but I was really good at connecting with people. I was really good at building rapport and I was really good at connecting with people. I was really good at building rapport and I was really good at building trust and extremely quickly, I learned to abuse all of that with basically any female customer that I ever interacted with. So that started August of 10. We got married June 4th 2011.
Logan Hufford:By the time we got married, I had cheated on my wife multiple times. Yeah, just multiple times cheated on her. Every time I hated myself for doing it. I felt all the shame and all this. It was never like, oh, this is no big deal, guys have mistakes. No, no, I hated myself, but I still lied to myself and then said, oh it, when we get because we weren't living together when we get married, like we'll have a family and I will have sown my wild oats right like that, I truly believed that that would be the case. That wasn't the case. I mean everything that I'd been training myself to do for years that now I'm like really truly playing out. Playing out three dimensionally in the worst ways was only getting progressively worse. I progressively worse. I was only sounds really bad. I was only getting better and better at it, at getting what I wanted, at covering my tracks, at all of these things wanted at covering my tracks at all of these things.
Brad Minus:Wow, so all right. So every time you did this, you felt bad about it, and I can see that. I could definitely see where that would happen, but yet it wouldn't stop you right, and it wouldn't stop you from from the next one. What was? I hate this word too, so I'm gonna ask you what your trigger was it's funny you say that I hate that word.
Logan Hufford:I get a lot of psychological or psychology words in modern, like psych pop, where. And yet they all have like real roots and they all have real meanings. Right, they totally are irrelevant. Okay, I'll be honest, it's hard for me to answer that question because they okay. There's so much that comes to mind. Can you rephrase that a little bit?
Brad Minus:Well, I was just thinking that, okay, so you feel bad and we all feel that. We feel remorse. You're probably somewhere in there. There's a Sunday, you go to church and you're thinking, okay, I'm back with God and everything's great. I got my wife at my side. There's something, whether it be a female customer, that comes in and you're just like cha-ching, I'm gonna turn it on, or something else, or it's. You walk into a convenience store and you see the playboys behind the, behind the shelf, or god forbid you like you go by. Maybe you had a. There was a high school that you passed every time on your way home, every night, and the cheerleaders were out there and and they were practicing. Maybe that was your trick, I don't know. That's what I'm trying to figure out what, what that was, so that we could then we, so then we can talk about you getting into recovery, then you starting to, starting to come out of it.
Logan Hufford:That's what I'm trying to get to so in the moment I had no clue what my trigger was like. Like I had no clue. It was just like man. I literally it wasn't quite to the level where it's like man I just keep cheating on Carrie. It was almost to that level, whereas, like this, like cluelessness of man, I keep getting into these situations where I'm having these sexual encounters with women and I'm sexually texting women.
Logan Hufford:A little bit of hindsight, looking back on it, I got myself into these situations where I crossed over like 20 like levels of any appropriate behavior, like I crossed over 20 of these things to get to this point where I was even in a situation where this was possible. But it it felt like I went over those 20 boundary. No, they weren't boundaries, these 20 guardrails. I went over those 20 boundaries. No, they weren't boundaries, these 20 guardrails. I went over 20 of them in an instant. It felt like Now reality. It probably took a week or it took several minutes at least.
Logan Hufford:But in my addiction, in this point where I just trained myself to chase after new and different and more and just as much of a high as I can get, and different and more and just as much of a high as I can get. Even if it took 10 minutes or an hour or a month, it felt like an instant. None of that is meant to be an excuse, because a big part of recovery was learning to see all the off ramps that I had, all the opportunities that I have. Even if I've crossed some major boundaries, I still have opportunities to take the off ramp to get out of the car, so to speak. So, in terms I I don't know if this is what you're asking, but this is, I think, part of what you're getting at. I recognized some of this at the time, definitely looking back on it for sure.
Logan Hufford:So a vulnerable woman was my primary trigger, and I know we were already coming over this, but I'll just I'll say it again I don't mean for this to be anything other than just describing my addiction, what a vulnerable woman looked like for me, and this was me guesstimating, speculating on what would be a vulnerable woman. Obviously, I couldn't always know, but for one, of course, I've got my eyes. So what does she look like? What is she acting like? Right Single mom, somebody that was attractive but maybe didn't take care of their health super well, smoker stuff like that, and it was like super unhealthy. But that's where I was right. This is all kinds of wrong, but I would feel even in when I was selling cars, I would fill out the credit apps with the customers, with my customers.
Logan Hufford:So credit score somebody that was a 580 credit score was absolutely somebody that was more likely to see what I could get than an 800. And that's, honestly, that's probably one of the best examples of just when I say like I was a predator, that's what I mean, right, sizing up every single aspect of another human being as possible prey for my addiction, for me. So I could go on and on. But there's all of these things and those sorts of triggers, those sorts of factors. I would encounter women and size them up through those filters in a grocery store, in a bank. But of course the opportunity was never greater than if I was dealing with somebody for at minimum a couple hours At maximum, as some car deals. Is this somebody that I can pray after?
Logan Hufford:Here's where that risk adverse piece comes back in. Somebody that is more vulnerable. That's a 580 credit score that doesn't take care of themselves. Super well, old Logan would look at that and go. This is also somebody that is less likely to rebuff my advances, somebody less likely to complain to my boss, right, if I were to try something, versus an 800 that's, a C-level executive buying this SRT Would I be triggered by somebody who was wearing a business outfit, who hair all done? Maybe, but I probably wouldn't try to pursue anything because the risk factor would be too great and that the ratio of risk to the likelihood that something's going to happen it wasn't going to be worth my time and energy, which is just ridiculous. But that's where I was at.
Brad Minus:So let's just, let's quickly quantify it, how. What was like the rate of these encounters that you'd end up, that you'd end up going? Where did you end up? Like two, three women a week, was it? Four or five a month, was it? Can you kind of give us just the ballpark average?
Logan Hufford:It was actually a lot less than that in terms of sexual encounters. It was actually a lot less than that in terms of sexual encounters Because I had there was so much as crazy as I went off the deep end. There was still so much head, knowledge and belief baked in. That I'm thankful for, and the shame and the self-hatred like knowing how I would feel if I got to that place where I man, I seriously just did that again. That kept me from advancing further than I did, I guess I'll put it that way.
Logan Hufford:So inappropriate texting was constant. Every day I was inappropriately texting and seeking after whatever I could get. Every day I was objectifying, like that was constant. Even porn wasn't a daily thing, because even porn I felt bad about, even porn. I and the only reason I say even is because I absolutely and not to get into a whole other thing, but I absolutely view porn as it's a form of infidelity. I'm sexually putting myself with this person, but I felt more shame and self-hatred after having a sexual affair. For sure, but both of them gave me shame, both of them made me feel bad. So I had to ramp myself up to cross over barriers, to cross over those guardrails, to get to that point.
Logan Hufford:So it would be to actually answer your question in the end of 2010 or the very start of 2011,. It was that winter from then until 2015. I'll be honest, I could be off by a few, but we're talking about a dozen probably to a sexual encounter a couple of times a year probably, and because I had to ramp it up to get over the barriers, and then afterwards there was this just giant tsunami of self-hatred and shame that for a while usually for several months, sometimes maybe only for a few days, but usually for several months, if not a year would make me like I wouldn't stop all the behaviors, but I would slow all the other. I would slow all the behaviors down Cause I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm never doing that again. I told myself that even two years into my marriage, after doing it multiple times. I'm never doing it again. Not a healthy brain, not a healthy brain in Logan at that point.
Brad Minus:Right, no, I get that. So basically, what we're saying is, because of the ramp up, because of the well, and then obviously location, everything else, literally there was something going on daily, whether it be just a text, an inappropriate text or porn or some sort of step to get over a barrier. So that was. It was almost that was sitting with you daily. That's what I'm trying to get at is that, even though this is going on and there is some gratification going on, which is what you're seeking, and but then of course the gratification turns to self hate.
Logan Hufford:This is a daily struggle. Yeah, because the high that I would chase and I always clarify with folks sexual addiction, it's not an addiction to sex, it's not even necessarily an addiction to sexual behaviors. It involves those things but it manifests in different ways. Ultimately I would get highs that were not necessarily stronger, they were just different. But I would get highs from the text back from a woman that might rival the sexual high of having a physical encounter. So even I was feeding myself, I was feeding the sexual addiction to your point every single day, even though to the external eye it might look like I went a year at some point, or six months at some points between some of these behaviors.
Brad Minus:Oh yeah, no, no. I've known guys that just for kicks they'd be talking to some, to someone of the opposite sex and for them just to ask for a, and for them to ask for a picture or an inappropriate picture and the high that you'd get just from getting that picture back wouldn't maybe might not even be like fully, fully nude picture, might just be something that was just a little risque, but that the oxytocin jump that you got from just getting that back I can see. And if you're doing that daily this was these were usually dares, that would happen, and once every blue moon. But if you're getting sick in that daily, I can see that all right. So tell me where your turning point was where you finally realized that okay, this is, you're done. Now you got it, I got to stop somehow. Was there actually an event or was it some? Or was it just you sit there and saying, okay, I'm done, I need help and I'm going to figure out a way to get this done one piece of context.
Logan Hufford:You alluded to this when we're talking off camera, so I just not to confuse the listeners. So I started confessing to my wife several months, about six months, after we got married. So for most of these years I'm giving her staggered confessions. Pretty much every time I had a sexual encounter I would confess. So I would. I wasn't confessing the porn, I wasn't confessing the flirting, but I would confess.
Logan Hufford:When it got to that point where the self-hatred and shame was would build up like this volcano. And then I'm going. I feel so bad, I'm going to share all this crap, not repenting, not changing, just changing, just unloading on her. And another piece of context we've got four kids. We started having kids early. My son Elijah was born 11 months after we got married. I'm coming home, not just to my wife. I'm coming home to my wife and my babies after being with women, after or sometimes while sexually texting women, all these different things. When I say self-hatred, when I say hopelessness, when I say despair, when I say shame, like not an exaggeration, right, this is, this was a hell on earth. So I'm, I've given her confessions so she knows that it's happened. She no woman, of course, should ever have to be or no. No person should ever have to be prepared to deal with that. But she's in survival mode. She's trying to change diapers and feed the kids and take care of the house. So she's got no clue what a healthy response looks like.
Logan Hufford:But in 2015, the summer of 2015, I had and this is these are carrie's words I had the most hurtful affair that I ever had, for that's carrie saying that it's the most hurtful affair, which is saying a lot because I there were terrible things, right, but I had an affair, all of july, basically, which was very different from most of the cheating that I'd done. Most of it, I hate the term hookups. I hate that term, but most of them were what you'd call a hookup. Right, it was a one-time sexual encounter. I didn't want a relationship after that, I didn't want any communication after that, but this was very different. This was an emotional affair as well as physical. It was the whole thing. It was also somebody that Carrie didn't know her personally. She was somebody I sold a car to, but Carrie had seen some suspicious texts. She knew something might be going on and, of course, given my history, she was pretty sure. But I unlike basically anything before. I completely lied to her face about this woman. I completely lied to her face about multiple things. So again, hurt coming from Carrie's mouth. This was the most hurtful affair I ever committed. And so at that point she's like all right, if you don't get help, if you don't make some changes, then I'm gone, you lose me and you lose the kids. She'd never given me an ultimatum before. She had never been able to stand up to me like that, stand up to her abuser like that.
Logan Hufford:It was almost a year before I got sober. That was summer of 2015. May 19th of 16 is my sobriety date. So not a linear path, not a toggle switch flip, but I started, started to do some things. I started to go to meetings. And when I say I started to do some things, that's super weak verbiage, but it's accurate verbiage. I did a lot of checking the box. I did a lot of bare minimums, but I started to put myself out there and try for resources and see what I could find. So I went to an SAA group basically Alcoholics Anonymous, but it's for sex addicts Went to that for a few months, went to a Christ-based recovery group and there were some good elements to these things.
Logan Hufford:There wasn't a lot of hope, especially in that first group and that's the only. There could only be the guys that were currently in that group and I'm thinking like it's good that they were there, but there wasn't anyone that had like a transformed life. There was nobody that had a life where I'm like I want that dude's life until March of 2016. And somebody that I had met at a Celebrate Recovery named Rick. He pulled me aside. He was like hey, man, I'm glad you're here. You need something more serious than this group, and I'm not trying to throw shade at Cellberg Recovery. I'm very thankful for what they do, but that's what he said. He was like I think you need to come to a group called Prodigals. At that time, the only group was in Anchorage.
Logan Hufford:I was living in Wasilla. Already at that time I'd already moved out here and already at that time I'd already moved out here, and so I pushed him off for a while, but eventually I went and I still did. That was march of 2016. Still didn't get over for a couple more months, but that was the first time that I met. So like I met rick, but I met multiple guys and I over the course of the next well, eight plus years, but even the next few weeks.
Logan Hufford:I met guys who had I met. I've met 20 guys probably in that time that have basically my story, but they've got years of healthy living, not just a couple of years of sobriety, not just five years of sobriety five, 10, 15, 20 years, in some cases, of healthy living, of like actual transformed lives. Guys that you would, you could spend all day with and you would never have a freaking clue that these guys had been with prostitutes, these guys had carried on affairs, that these guys had been addicted to porn for decades. I never had hoped that there could be a new life for me because of the stuff I'd done, but when I met some other guys that had been in those shoes, that was a wake up call that, okay, I don't know what they had to do, but I'm willing to try.
Brad Minus:So all right. So prodigals was like. The prodigals turned out to be like a step above SAA and groups like that. So that's what I'm getting, and prodigals is actually a faith-based.
Logan Hufford:Yeah, and again, like self-recovery is too, a big part of it is faith-based, like I very much believe not here to preach, but I very much believe like sobriety is one thing I can get sober. For me to truly have a like transformative healing, I do believe that comes through faith in Christ. But just being faith-based wasn't necessarily enough, because most recovery groups cell recovery, any CR that I've ever been to most recovery groups operate where they value anonymity. That's good. They value safety that's good. It needs to be safe and anonymous for me to be vulnerable, right. But they value safety such to such a degree that it becomes a comfort zone I could show up and share whatever I wanted to share.
Logan Hufford:Guys aren't. You're not allowed to give me feedback, you're not allowed to ask me questions, because they don't want you to scare me off. They don't want you to scare me off. They don't want you to offend me. No, I for years had trained myself to be a manipulator, right To work the room, this narcissistic sociopath. The last thing I needed was a comfort zone. And so at Prodigals, it's Christ-based and there's a lot of loving guys there. But it's encouraged to grill guys, not just the new guys to grill each other Tough questions.
Logan Hufford:Well, hold on. You said this last week. You're saying this week dude, these two things don't match up. What's going on? Or hey, logan, for the last six weeks you've been saying I'm just making this up, but you've been saying that every Saturday you go to the farmer's market with your family and you end up staring at this lady that runs this booth Like why not go to a different booth? Why not do this? Why not go to the farmer's market for, like guys, as simple and basic as advice and questions like that is most recovery groups don't allow for stuff like that because it could be too harsh, it could be hurtful, and I'm not here to dog on other groups, but it's again. I cannot emphasize enough I didn't need a comfort zone, I needed people to get in my face and be like dude, what the heck are you doing?
Brad Minus:I agree, I agree, listen, I got. I got plenty of clients that I give them a plan and they're like why aren't I getting faster? Why can't I get you better on the bike? Why can't I get better? And then I'm like, all right, well, let's look. And I'm like, well, you're supposed to do this tempo workout. You missed your metrics. You did this one. You missed your metrics. You tried this one, this and you didn't this one. You're doing the best that you can and blah, blah, blah.
Brad Minus:And I see it. Now. Obviously, we're talking about, as far as situations, it's apples and oranges, but I can see it. You know what I mean. Sometimes you just need that tough love to sit there and say well, you know what, avoid it. Now, I was always getting the impression that and this is something that's new You're saying that a lot of it's actually faith-based, and the only thing that I knew that was faith-based is that they actually used the word God in the serenity prayer. That was the only thing. Everything, as far as I knew it was like god, grant me the serenity to accept things I cannot. I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. That's as far as it went. After that I was sharing and going from there, so I didn't know that a lot of these things were already face-based it's a brad I'm.
Logan Hufford:Can you edit this part out? Can you give me like two minutes, of course, okay. Okay, give me just a couple minutes. I have to. I'll be right back.
Logan Hufford:So one thing that happened it was that guy I mentioned, rick that I met at a sober recovery out here in wasilla. He before I actually went to a prodigal's meeting with him. At one point I told you like I was checking boxes and couldn't bear minimum. At one point I was like I felt like I was really putting myself out there. I'm really trying something.
Logan Hufford:I was like Rick, could we get together for coffee every now and again and talk about sexual addiction? And I'm like my ego is a little puffed up, like I'm really willing to do something here. And Rick is someone who is he's become my best friend outside of Carrie. He's like my dad, he's like a grandpa to my kids and he's literally one of the most loving people that you will ever meet. And Rick looked at me and he was like Logan, if you want to get together for coffee every now and again, I've got time for you. And you want to talk about hurt feelings? You want to talk about something offending me, that offended me, that hurt my feelings. I didn't enjoy hearing those words, right? He quickly followed it up too. He was like if you want to work on things, I'll walk with you and we'll'll work on this, but it's not going to be getting together for coffee every now and again, it's not going to be on your terms. And he ended up walking me through.
Logan Hufford:So prodigals is a group. It's a weekly group. There's no requirement to show up, other than you have to be a dude, and you have to be a dude that says I'm here to work on sexual addiction. But then there's a prodigal's mentorship program. That's a. It's an elective program, usually takes about two years and it's basically voluntary house arrest not from a legal standpoint, but that's essentially what it is. You're signing away a lot of freedoms and you're doing that until you graduate from a very intensive 12-step christ-based program. So rick ended up walking me through that program, which was yet two years graduated in may of 18 and he was not with. He. That was not an empty promise that he was willing to walk with me, but it was not going to be according to Logan's terms. He was not going to be me working the room and getting my way, which is what I'd been doing for 25 years to that point, and so recovery has never left my life. I graduated from the program, still did a lot of the things that I did in the program, still made daily phone calls. For a year and a half I had to make a phone call every single day in the program. But I still made a phone call every single day for about a year and a half after that and I still make phone calls fairly regularly a few times a month.
Logan Hufford:Usually just stressors could be a sexual temptation. Most often it's not. It's hey, our septic's backing up and I'm I'm stressed. Or man, I'm so angry, my kid did this thing and I yelled. Or I am so ticked at carrying this, I'm frustrated. Or man, paycheck's light or whatever Life stuff.
Logan Hufford:I always say I got into recovery to stop cheating on my wife Very narrow, simple thing.
Logan Hufford:Well, that's simple, very narrow goal, right, and God gave me that.
Logan Hufford:But recovery also has taught me how to deal with life, how to interact with other people in a healthy way, how to interact with life in a healthy way. So I know that's the broad view. But over these last eight years recovery has never left and I still go every single week and I lead a group. Part of that is for myself, but also, of course, I want to give back right and when I think back to rick and other men like him that poured themselves into me, that took phone calls in some of the darkest times when I was feeling hopeless and and wanted to quit and feeling like I'm, I don't know if anything's working. These guys sat with me, these guys were in the trenches with me and again I got my feelings hurt, so sometimes I didn't like what they said, but every single one of these guys had a similar story and every single one of these guys loved me enough to speak the truth, loved me enough to help me, loved me enough to guide me down that path Wow.
Brad Minus:Two years. That's amazing. So I I'm just like because obviously you hear it in the movies and everything else oh, we got to put you in rehab for 30 days and you'll be fine, dry out, blah, blah. I hear you're talking about expand to two years and obviously nothing changed after that 30 days. We know there's more work to be done, but it's just a map that you're talking about. It's 30 days, that's two years, two years. So that was you going through the mentorship program Right now, now, but now you're a mentor? Yep, so did. Was there training after that for you to become the mentor, or was that kind of encompassed? Did you have a, an epiphany, someone there going? Wow, I'm like I feel loved, I'm getting all of this, I'm getting what I need from this program and it's amazing and, yes, it's hard work, but I'm, I'm, it's working. You're feeling that you're getting sober. Was there a? Was there an epiphany in there? It's like, well, how can I turn this around and help other people?
Logan Hufford:Nope, no epiphany. Okay, like I said earlier, like there's some parts of my story that are like black and white, it was this way and then it was this way, and it was like nope, there was no epiphany. But it's something where I can look back and I go. I remember what it felt like to go. I don't know if anything's changed. I don't know if anything's changed, I don't know if I'm different or if I'm just sober a little bit, and then I can look at other points and I'm like yeah, a lot changed, a lot was different, but sometimes it's so hard to see it. That's why I love sobriety coins. I don't make more of them than they are. It's just a coin, it's just a token, right, but everyone's brain's different. We get motivated by different things, but I think this applies to most humans, definitely applies to me.
Logan Hufford:When I'm in some of those dark days. I'm having a rough day. Maybe I've yelled at my kids, I've given into temptation, even if I haven't gone all the way, but I got. Visually, I've looked at a woman, or you know, and I'm like I've gone somewhere with my thoughts and I'm like man, I'm just the same old Logan, but to be able to go. I'm not, though, because it's been six months since I looked at porn, since I had an affair, since I I don't want to look at a woman and objectify her, I don't want to yell at my kids, I don't want to be short with Carrie, but I haven't gone to those lengths. And then, as time goes on, the frequency of crossing certain lines goes down and down, and then what it looks like to cross the line also goes down. I wasn't exaggerating when I said like my addiction. There would be days where it'd be like, oh crap, I had sex with a woman. That's literally how far gone I was. It was like, oh crap, that happened Well, and I don't want to minimize what I'm about to say, but I would much rather be in a spot where it's like, oh crap, that facebook ad popped up that had somebody doing who knows what, and I didn't bounce away for a full second. I still don't want to do that, but let that. I prefer that to be the oh crap. Then, oh gosh, I'm in this car with this woman, right and so again, yet no epiphany.
Logan Hufford:But the one thing I would say was about two years into the program. That was when not only did I get to a point where I actually started to feel like I don't think I need to look at porn anymore. Even though I hadn't been looking at porn, I still felt like I think I might go back. I think I might slip back into it or I don't know if I'm going to be able to not ever have another affair. And it was about two years and I'm arbitrarily saying two years, I don't remember if it was a year and a half, but it was a while into my program, closer to graduation than the start, that I actually felt like, okay, I don't need to go back to the old life anymore. And it was also around that time, a little bit further ahead, almost to graduation point, where I felt like I can pray, I can actually talk to God now, because until that point, me praying was basically me confessing the worst things a husband can do, like going to confession. God, I'm so sorry I did these terrible things. Please forgive me. There was no conversation going on. There was no like. These prayers aren't getting very far. They're probably not making it to the ceiling, kind of thing. That's where my mind was at. That's where my heart was at. So when I was towards the end of the program, not just because I was almost two years sober, but also just because there was a lot of clarity that came from that sobriety.
Logan Hufford:But also the program itself. It is centered around Christ. It's absolutely centered on the science of how my brain works and things I can do to retrain my brain. It's also centered around scripture. It's centered around a relationship with Christ. So it's both of those things in unison, which is a beautiful thing. It's not one or the other. So, yeah, no singular moment, but definitely about two years in is when that snowball effect started to happen in a good way. Right, healthy living is snowballing on top of healthy living.
Brad Minus:And yeah, and that the snowball effect, the chain reaction that started to happen, better, gets better and better. That was your epiphany. It wasn't one singular event, but it just sounded like it was a bunch of tiny things that led you down to that path.
Logan Hufford:Being able to recognize I can get tempted and then not go further. That's a very simple statement and yet I essentially couldn't do that, and I don't. That verbiage could sound like I'm blaming I'm not, I take ownership of my stuff, right but it felt like I couldn't say no to temptation for so long. So when I would have temptation, or again when there'd be times where I would cross a boundary, I would go further than I should and he was like, okay, but I don't need to go any further. I can still pull back from this, right, especially like those first several months, I got myself in stupid situations, I did stupid crap and I should have thrown it all away based on, like, my behavior. In some ways, there was one moment I this is a vivid memory and this might sound a little out there, but I truly do believe this is a God thing.
Logan Hufford:I don't remember if this was like a month sober or six months sober, but it was early on in recovery and it was a couple of months. It was summertime. I remember that it was the summer of 2016. And I'm out here in the Valley out in La Silla, and I'm out here in the Valley out in Wasilla, and I was supposed to meet up with my wife and our kids and we're going to go to the park. And, long story short, I didn't know Wasilla very well because I always worked in Anchorage. I didn't actually spend a lot of time in Wasilla and I couldn't find this park and I was getting all frustrated like such a silly little thing. And yet this is the stressors of life. Right, it shouldn't be a big deal, but I couldn't find this park and I was getting all frustrated like such a silly little thing. And yet this is. But this is the stressors of life. Right, it shouldn't be a big deal, but I couldn't find the park and I'm frustrated, and I'm and I remember, and I was upset because I felt like my wife gave me bad directions, I'm getting all ticked off. And to show you like how something so simple as I I got myself so amped up, I like got off the phone in a huff, I'm all ticked off and I'm Wasilla is.
Logan Hufford:It is what it is. It's a small town, but there is, there's a seedy area. Well, I wasn't far from the seedy area and I literally got to the point where I'm like I'm gonna go cruise some streets and I'm gonna go see what I can find, Something I didn't get into when I shared my story. I can't get into everything. So there was one point, just going back.
Logan Hufford:There was one point in my addiction where I started hiring prostitutes because that was a different way to get this thing. And then I could lie to myself and say, oh, this isn't really cheating so bad, because there's no relationship with bull crap. But that's what I told myself, right? So I had already, I had a history of doing that. So I'm a couple months sober, I'm driving through, I'm driving to CD area and I'm getting ready to just. I literally I remember I didn't say it out loud, but I remember the words in my head I'm gonna go see what I can find, as my wife and kids are like a mile away, probably right at a park that I can't find, and I turn the corner and I'm getting ready to turn right, and then I'm going to turn left and I'm going to get to a street that I know what that street is and I turn right and I'm cruising down the street and then right in front of me I see Wonderland Park and my wife and kids were right there.
Logan Hufford:Oh wow and I small decision, huge decision simultaneously. I didn't turn left. I drove about 200 feet, I parked in the parking lot, I went and hung out with my wife and kids, but like that kind of a thing did not exist for me for years, I couldn't do. It is what. That's what it felt like. I couldn't say no, I couldn't go back. I'd already made the decision I'm going to go see what I can find, we'll see where that takes me.
Logan Hufford:So, like to your point, enough of those types of moments, enough of those types of decisions hand caked on top of each other, going. I don't have to be old Logan, I don't have to be a predator. I don't have to say yes, even though I got mad, even though I made a choice in my head. I don't have to play it out to fruition, even though I started driving to that street. I don't have to actually turn on that street. Like those kinds of moments. It took a while to experience enough of them to realize that this can be a new reality for me, you get better.
Brad Minus:It's those little brave moments and then they pile on top of each other and yeah, so I, yeah, I applaud you for that that's. But that's fantastic that you could sit there and go okay, well, listen, when I'm having kids, cause you could have made the left right. They probably wouldn't have seen you if you decided to make it, but you sat there and said, nope, more important. Sat there and said, nope, more important, that's yeah, and that's the serenity right, yeah, that's fantastic. So how, when, how long after that did you feel that it took to where, the point where you became the leader of the group or a group?
Logan Hufford:A long time time, several years. So graduated, 2018, attended. I've attended every single week for eight years. There's an odd week that I'm camping or something like that, but every single week I'm going to group. And was it 2019, 2020?
Logan Hufford:My mentor and his wife, patty who I haven't gone into this part of the story and I won't really just for time's sake, but also because I'm not Carrie got into recovery herself for healing from sexual betrayal, because the trauma from sexual betrayal is that's a whole other piece to all this right Having a lying, cheating, manipulative, abusive husband. So she didn't just say, okay, you go do recovery. She jumped into her own healing from this. She's attended groups herself, put in her own time and energy to heal, which is a whole other piece of this, which is just a beautiful part. But so my mentor's wife, patty, has mentored Carrie for years as well. So, rick and Patty, they've become some of our best friends and they were sitting down with dinner and they told us that they're going to be moving away before too long to take care of some family members. They're about my parents' age and then that came to fruition over the course of the next several months.
Logan Hufford:But at another conversation rick asked me about like the idea of taking over the group and also taking over mentorship of a guy who, just like I had been several years ago. He was starting to walk with a guy but just started it and he's like, basically, what would you think about taking over mentorship of this man and of the group? So this is I'm, it's like four years in and to that point things were not bad, but they were realistically. There was plateau in a way. There was stagnation in a way of I'm sober, I'm getting better, I'm I'm not doing that the old stuff. But there wasn't really growth when it came to recovery and, to be honest, I didn't hesitate. It was like, yeah, I got to, and not in a negative way. No, of course. Like being in battle, like yeah, I can't say no to my commander. Yeah, of course I'll take over, like I've got to give back, right. And so, yeah, I started to take over the group. We took turns leading the group, started mentoring this man, and that was a huge piece. I'm so thankful for that.
Logan Hufford:It's almost cliche, but the best way to learn is to teach right. The best way to grow is to be put in that leadership position, because that took things to a whole nother level, where it's like now I got to really take ownership of my choices. Now I got to really take ownership. This isn't just about saving my marriage, this isn't just about saving me. This is am I a good example to these men, right? Am I a good example to this guy that I'm mentoring on an ongoing basis? So things were already going well. They were already going so much better night and day, right. But then God used that transition to just ratchet things up even better. And I'm not trying to paint it as, like this, perfect, rosy, everything's perfect, but it has been. It's been incredible because it just it cemented my mission.
Logan Hufford:For years I was, I would lay in bed, hating myself and literally saying to God why did you create me? All I do is hurt people, why the heck would you put me on this earth, when all I do is hurt people? And I literally like I was flabbergasted. Why did God put me on this earth? I'm not trying to sound corny, but I think back to that often because now I get to go. Yeah, I know why God put me on this earth to give back in the way that men gave to me, right? So, leading the group mentoring men. This is just a different branch of that tree, just whatever I can do to put some hope out there so that if there's a guy like me that didn't think that there was hope possible, didn't think there was healing possible, that there is yeah, that's pretty powerful.
Brad Minus:That's pretty powerful, logan. I yeah, I think that's the way it should be. Do you think that maybe that was the journey? Maybe I don't think. So I don't think you're at the end point. You're 33 but like you had to go through this, you had to go through this. You had to go through this hell, as you kept saying, to be able to get where you are so that you can help other people, because obviously someone like I wouldn't know, I couldn't mentor somebody on this because I don't know what it feels like to be there. So, in order to get to this point, you've got to know what it feels like so you can mentor people because you can, you could be with them. So do you think at some point, someone that is is that that that really takes that Christ in your heart and your soul and this is a big part of your life? Do you think that might have been the reason?
Brad Minus:I absolutely do no doubt in my mind so, and I had no idea that spouses had a recovery group as well, but I guess it makes sense. What's so? Alcoholonomics? And then there's a. There's another group for loved ones of like alcohol and Right. Do you remember what that's called?
Logan Hufford:Well, so Al-Anon, al-anon, that's. It Is a huge one. And yeah, there's different types of groups that might focus on specific segments. Right, because there's, on one hand, there's that piece, there's the I'll pull back a little bit, I don't want to speak too much about something that I don't have personal experience in, but right there, there's a lot of focus, usually with codependency, which is a huge thing. You are married to or you're the loved one or your family member of an addict, so that not enabling them and being codependent, like that's a huge piece. But there's an extra level here where I'm going out and having sex with other women. I'm having this whole sexual double life, plus the manipulation, plus the verbal and emotional abuse and everything Right. So all of that crap there's, the sexual addiction is fairly marginalized compared to a lot of addictions, I would say.
Logan Hufford:Yeah, compared to how big of a problem it is. Sexual betrayal trauma is probably even more marginalized. She didn't know that there was a group like that. Just like you said, you didn't know. Most people have no clue that there's resources available for women and there are groups out there. There's therapists out there specifically for sexual betrayal trauma. Wow, I mean, I had no clue. I didn't even know that there was therapists for sexual addiction, let alone for sexual betrayal trauma. So there are resources out there and, of course, I don't know what's available in everyone's city and how good that person is or that group is. Who knows? You got to give it a try and see is there something worth taking from that group or that person. But the resources are out there, even though there need to be far more.
Brad Minus:So yeah, so I like I said I didn't know and I was trying to make the comparison I was trying to like, okay, well, we've got, we got Alcoholics Anonymous and we have Al-Anon, we've got you've got sexual addiction recovery and you've got betrayal recovery, and that was where I was trying to make that point.
Brad Minus:But I think what your point was actually more powerful. But, yeah, I think this is pretty amazing that, first of all, we brought to light tonight, just first of all for people that don't really understand that there is something called sexual addiction out there and what it might look like, you were able to tell us what this might look like, you know what, and I got to give it to your wife because she recognized that this was a disease, this was an addiction, a mental affliction, and continued to love you, whether it be for survival or not. Right, she stuck around, which there's more than enough people out there. We've got a 30% divorce rate in this country as it is, and obviously there's a high percentage of that is due to infidelity, but actually most of it's got either to do it's got to do with personality or finances. Most. Those are the two that actually are the biggest ones.
Logan Hufford:It's not. Basically, we can't get along whatever, however, that manifests Right.
Brad Minus:Yeah, and my biggest thing is that. So I know through my own relationships that we have this cycles, right, and people and I believe we've come to a point in, in and this is about marriage, it's not about sexual addiction, but it's about marriage that we're at this point where the first sign of trouble people are like okay, forget it, call it, quits, right, instead of going going. You know what? There's going to be times in a long relationship that you're going to be massively in love with your partner and then there's going to be times where you're going to be like I love my partner.
Brad Minus:I probably at this point in time, in this moment here, I probably am not in love with her, but I'm in love with her or him for back, back and forth, right, but then that that that will cycle again and you'll cycle back up and things will change and all of a sudden something will happen and all of a sudden you're in love with them again. You know what I mean, and people aren't doing that. Now. When you add something like sexual addition to the fact into that match, that just makes things harder. And I've got a. So I think carrie's a saint and that she was able to see through it and go no, it's not that he doesn't love me, it's the fact that he's got something going on and we just need to figure out a way to get through it I'll be super quick for for time's sake, but it just I.
Logan Hufford:I do want to make these couple qualifiers like number one. And she would tell you she didn't. She definitely didn't realize that at the time, until getting into recovery, that it wasn't about her. She, the whole time she thought she needed to be sexier, she thought she needed to be better in some way, which again is like the abuse and and all of that. You know, she, she, yeah, she, this was. It was a double thing, right? So part of recovery was that was learning. It wasn't not excusing things, but it wasn't about her, it wasn't me, because not loving her enough or not liking her, and I've had nothing to do with her.
Logan Hufford:I started off sharing my story, talking about how I trained myself to chase after new and different and more. Well, that's, those are things that a human being cannot be right. A human being cannot be I mean a little bit. It can't be a new and different and more person, right? Porn affairs all of that was creating this monster that she could never compete with.
Logan Hufford:And then the other piece is I don't want people to get divorced. Carrie doesn't want people to get divorced, but we do absolutely accept in this arena, even from a Christian perspective their sexual infidelity. If their sexual infidelity and the wife's like I can't deal with that, we get it Like absolutely. Her job with her women is not to save their marriage, it's to help that woman protect herself and her family. Hopefully, we would love to see both parties jump into recovery. They jump into healthy living and and there's able to be reconciliation, and most times that is the case by god's grace. But we totally understand that obviously I shouldn't be married to her. Still I shouldn't be able to come home to my kids.
Logan Hufford:And then just I'll say that this last piece and this connects with what you just said about relationships and marriage, speaking for myself, and this is prescriptive, or sorry, this is descriptive, it's not prescriptive, but anyone out there who's had anything similar to me can hopefully take something from this, which is when I get in an argument with Carrie, when I have a bad day, when maybe Carrie is short with me or she does something that I'm like I don't love that. You said that or did that. I'll tell you what. Life's not easy, but I have a huge cheat code, which is this I run things through this filter of okay, I want to be mad at her. I want to argue with her, I want to do this, that and the other.
Logan Hufford:I could have and should have thrown away my marriage for years of cheating on her. God gave me my family back, so how much of a freaking fool would I have to be to carry resentment towards her and let that poison our marriage? How much of a freaking fool would I have to be to carry resentment towards her and let that poison our marriage? How much of a fool would I have to be to get pissed at her because I didn't like what she made for dinner or because of how she packed our bags for vacation? So I'm not saying that I don't ever get short with her, but it does help a lot because I get to reflect back and like, yeah, I'm not about to let something that petty ruin what God has given me that I totally don't deserve to even have anymore.
Brad Minus:Yes, that is well said and I think that It'd be taken with any relationship, not just one that's had gone through the trials and tribulations that yours had. I think that could be done with any relationship just to the gratification not the gratification, the gratefulness that you've got to have that partner in your life. Yeah, so that is, uh, that's fantastic. So you had mentioned prior to us started recording that you do a lot of Instagram. You're pretty active on Instagram and you're on. Most of your content is geared toward this right Helping others going through sexual addiction. That's correct, right.
Logan Hufford:Yeah. So if you follow me at no longer in bondage and there's periods in between the words no longer in bondage and I'll give you the hand links if you want to put them in the show notes. I put out quite a few videos a day and it's geared specifically towards sexual addiction recovery. A lot of it's going to be applicable, even if it's not necessarily sexual addiction. Right, if it's getting healthier with my choices, even if it's not necessarily addiction.
Logan Hufford:Getting healthier with my choices the stakes were pretty darn high with me with sexual addiction but ultimately getting healthier with my habits, getting healthier with my mindset, re rewiring my brain and also even some of the stuff that's specific for sexual addiction it's geared to. I'm doing it, I'm putting my time and energy into it because I want to reach men that were in my shoes. But if you're a loved one, if you're a spouse or you're a dad, or you're a pastor or you're a friend, I promise you this If you don't struggle like good, you have a lot of people in your life that do. The stats bear that out. So for anybody that would like to understand more about this, check it out. I would encourage you to check it out. It's completely focused on helping bring awareness and healing in this specific subject.
Brad Minus:Perfect and if you've got any specific questions you could slide into his DMs, Yep and yeah, you can.
Logan Hufford:Yeah, absolutely. Ask me a question If you're, if you're somebody that you're at your wits end. You're like I got no clue what to do and I'm yeah, I'm living over here in Australia and I'm never going to see Logan face to face. Okay, like we can jump on a zoom call. You're, we can stay inside, we jump on a phone call. I don't do this for a living, but this is my life, this is my passion. So, whatever I can do to help point you in the right direction or pointing to a resource, let's, we can do that.
Brad Minus:And you said prodigals is nationwide.
Logan Hufford:It's nationwide. You can hear my tone of voice. Every group is created differently, right? So I don't know what you would get if you went to one in Tacoma or San Diego, but the organization prodigals is nationwide. Aa or celebrate recovery. There's groups all over.
Brad Minus:Yeah, so I just wanted to put that out there, because the one oh, here it is, so the one that starts it all where you can find other places. It looks like it's called prodigals international, um, prodigals internationalorg, and it looks like you can find all the other places where they. It's like all the other places where they're available, so like the one that I'll link to, just because that's where Logan is prodigals of Alaskacom, but it looks like where you can start at prodigalsinternationalorg, which I'll also link that into the show notes along with Logan's Instagram and so that you can see the videos and if you want to ask him some questions and we'll go from there. So, yeah, logan, thank you. That was, it was an super honest conversation, which that's gotta be pretty difficult, so thank you for that. I think that was an honor for all of us, so really appreciate that.
Logan Hufford:Well, I'm not just saying this. I'm extremely grateful for the opportunity to come on and talk, cause a lot of folks don't necessarily want to delve into this. They don't necessarily want an episode titled sexual addiction and I get it Like that's fine, but I'm thankful for every opportunity I get to shout from the rooftops.
Brad Minus:Yeah, and thank you again very much. So so, for the rest of you, like I said, check out the show notes. If you need to get a hold of logan we taught you, we talked to you how to do that just jump into his dms. On instagram, you can check out prodigals international and if you like this episode, go ahead and share it with maybe somebody that might need this information. Also, if you want to leave a review and a like on all that stuff, that would be great too. So we appreciate it. Other than that, we will see you in the next one.
